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George J
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17/4/2005
06:48:39
Subject: Joseph Guarnerius (1712)
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I possess a violin which has the following info. 'scorched' inside (no paper label).

"Joseph Guarnerius fecit cremone anno 1712 +" (a cross).

Not best of condition, two bows(one unused) in original case.

Any information would be appreciated.


Gordon
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17/4/2005
16:18:33
RE: Joseph Guarnerius (1712)
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Hi George,

You have a copy.

Regards,
Gordon


Stephen williams
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04/5/2005
01:48:58
Joseph Guarnerius (1724)
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My mother owned a violin with an old paper label inside marked Joseph Guarnerius 1724. She bought this violin in the 1930's and it is in mint condition. She recently died leaving it to me in her will.Is it worth much?

regards,
Stephen.


Gordon
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04/5/2005
12:10:09
RE: Joseph Guarnerius (1712)
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Hi Stephen,

Impossible to say. Doubtless a copy, but how good a copy can only be assessed by an expert looking at it in person. I suggest, as I have many, many times, that you take it to a luthier or recognised appraisor, who will give you a good idea of quality and value.

Regards,
Gordon


shirley Munnerlyn
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12/6/2005
13:24:13
RE: Joseph Guarnerius (1712)
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GORDON, I HAVE MY DAD'S VIOLIN. INSIDE IS "COPY OF JOSEPH GUARNERIUS, MADE IN AUSTRIA. FINE CONDITION, TWO BOWS, CASE OK. GOOD SOUND. ANY IDEA OF VALUE.

THANKS, SHIRLEY


Gordon
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12/6/2005
13:34:29
RE: Joseph Guarnerius (1712)
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Hi Shirley,

Much as I'd like to, or even able to give an idea of value, the only real way of doing this is to take it to someone who can assess it in the 'flesh' so to speak.

You obviously are very much in touch with reality, in that you realise that it is a copy (I wish others here did!).

The value will depend very much on its build and tonal quality. I urge you to have it looked at by a professional, who will be able to give you a ball-park figure. Some Austrian copies from workshops in Vienna and Salzberg are really quite nice, compared to the often dire outputs from the German factories in the same period.

Best of luck, and my kindest regards,
Gordon


MICHELLE PIERCE
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19/8/2005
13:23:14
RE: Joseph Guarnerius (1712)
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HEY I HAVE A VIOLIN AND I THINK THE DATE IS 1710 OR 1720 THE 17 IS BIG THE OTHER IS SMALLER AND THE ONLY THING I HAVE NOTICED DIFFERENT IS THE KEYS ARE NOT OUT TO SIDE LIKE MOST I DONT KNOW JUST THOUGHT I WOULD ASK IF THERE IS ANY WAY I COULD TELL MORE BY LOOKING FOR ANY THING SPECIAL ON IT THANK YOU MICHELLE PIERCE


Gordon
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19/8/2005
14:03:29
RE: Joseph Guarnerius (1712)
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Shhhhh! No need to shout. Shouters have a habit of being ignored.

There is nothing that I can tell you about pre-1850 instruments that hasn't already been reported on many, many times on these message boards. I suggest you find a few of them, as it sames us having to write further epistles on the same subject.

Regards,
Gordon


dustin
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26/8/2005
04:55:10
RE: Joseph Guarnerius (1712)
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i have a violin that has the inscription inside of joseph guarnerius cremone anno 17 HIS
it is in excellent condition my great grandmother got in an antique shop in the 1920's how do I go about finding an appraiser that would be able to tell me its worth do you have any recomendations

thanks dustin


Gordon
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26/8/2005
05:26:40
RE: Joseph Guarnerius (1712)
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Hi Dustin,

You ask too much... how can I advise you without knowing where you are in the world?

Regards,
Gordon


Walendowska
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28/8/2005
00:40:31
RE: Joseph Guarnerius (1733)
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I have a violin "Joseph Guarnerius fecit + Cremonae 1733 IHS"
Is it a copy?


Gordon
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28/8/2005
01:59:29
RE: Joseph Guarnerius (1712)
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Yes


Vanessa
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30/8/2005
09:34:54
RE: Joseph Guarnerius (1712)
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My mother has aquired a violin from her fathers estate. it is labled joseph guarnerius 1724 fecit cremonae anno ihs with an upside down cross...can you tell me its worth and if it is a copy. we do not know about many instruments and any advice would be welcome. i am in nebraska if you would know of any appraisers in this area as well.


Gordon
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30/8/2005
12:25:39
RE: Joseph Guarnerius (1712)
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It is a copy, and the value will depend wholely on its tone. This can never be assessed over the Internet.

Try Yellow Pages or Google for a decent appraisor. I'm sure there'll be one in your area, and if not, you just have to look further afield... the US is a big country and there are many appraisors out there.

Gordon


dustin
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31/8/2005
04:48:21
RE: Joseph Guarnerius (1712)
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i have a violin that has an inscription
joseph guarnerius cremone anno 17 HIS
i emailed you about if you have any recommendations i live in greeley colorado usa

thanks dustin


Mihkel
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01/9/2005
04:26:55
RE: Joseph Guarnerius (1712)
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Hi!
I have a violin with a labe inside "Copy of Joseph Garnerius Made in Czecho-Slovakia"
The condition is bad.
My question is- do you know something about Guarnerius copys from Czecho-Slovakia? I'd like to know how old ( on new?) it could be.
It looks old to me but then again- don't they all do?
Thank you
Mihkel from Estonia


Gordon
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01/9/2005
07:27:00
RE: Joseph Guarnerius (1712)
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Oldest = 1918, youngest = 1989. Czechoslovakia existed only between those years.

Without seeing it, the wood and the varnish, ir's not possible to be any more accurate than that, apart from saying that if it is in poor condition its value will be negligible.

Regards,
Gordon


Kris
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01/9/2005
07:53:43
RE: Joseph Guarnerius (1712)
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Is there a place here to post some pics Gordon?

Kris


Gordon
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01/9/2005
07:59:01
RE: Joseph Guarnerius (1712)
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No, fraid not, Kris. Graham doesn't allow it.

You must post to your ISP free space and link to them from here.

Gordon


Judith Burger
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07/10/2005
05:26:34
RE: Joseph Guarnerius (1712)
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My husbands has his great great grandfather's violin Joseph Guamerius. Please tell me where to get a appraisal so that we can get insurance on it. Thanks


Gordon Burns
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07/10/2005
06:04:51
RE: Joseph Guarnerius (1712)
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Message:
Please read the message before yours!

Thank you


Matt M.
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13/10/2005
14:28:22
RE: Joseph Guarnerius (1712)
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Message:
I have a Joseph Guanerius Copy. It was my great grandfathers
and perhaps his fathers before that, but that i do not know.
Now i know the family story thing is unstable, but I was
wondering if you had any resources for me to find a date for its
production. I've noticed, unlike many other peoples, my violin's
label reads " Copy Of Joseph Guanerius, Made in Czecho-
slowakia" I hope that helps. It is in playing condition, and i
actually use it as my own! Thank you for reading this.

-Matt-


Gordon M Burns
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13/10/2005
22:34:04
RE: Joseph Guarnerius (1712)
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In your case, your family story is so unstable it's just about to crumble... To have been made in Czechoslovakia, it can be no older than 1920. I'm not saying it was never owned by your great-grandfather, since I suppose it is possible that he was still around in 1920, but unless your family all had children at a very young age, it's most unlikely that he had it when he was young.

During the last century, the average age per generation is almost 30 yrs. Assuming you were born 1980, your father was born c.1950, your grandfather was born c.1920, around the earliest possible time your violin could have been made. It is therefore logical that great-grandfather could have owned it, but that he bought it as a new instrument later in life. The older your forebears were when they had children, the shakier your family story becomes.

By researching your family's birth dates, and comparing those dates with the earliest possible date of 1920, you may get a rough idea of when it was made, although you'll never, ever know for sure... it is an anomymous violin, made in an unknown factory workshop, on an inknown date... that's all you'll ever know about it.

Regards,
Gordon


Alicia
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23/10/2005
15:21:49
Copy of Joseph Guarnerius?
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Hello Gordon,

I have a old beat up violin that was my grandfather's in Pine Bluff, Arkansas back in the 1950's. It has the lable on it that says:
Josef Guarnerius fecit cremonae anno 17 IHS. There is no doubt it is a copy.
My question is why whoever made the violin would only put a 17? And what kind of language that is? I guess perhaps they just forgot the rest of the year. The space past the 17 is not faded, as if there was a number afterwards. It's sort of puzzling to me. I'm looking into taking it to a dealer and asking more about it from my family. If you can answer, great, if not thanks for reading this message.
Thanks Again,
Alicia


Alicia
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23/10/2005
16:40:00
Josef Guarnerius
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Message:
Hi Gordon,

It's Alicia from Alaska again. I think I forgot to mention that the spelling of the name is Josef Guarnerius on the lable. Would that help in trying to figure out where the copy was made?
Thanks again.
Sincerely,

Alicia C.


Alicia
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23/10/2005
16:43:20
Joseph Guarnarius del Gesu
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I found this on the Smithsonian Encyclopedia webpg
http://www.si.edu/resource/faq/nmah/guarneri.htm

Joseph Guarnarius del Gesu

The most illustrious member of this famous family of violin makers was Bartolomeo Giuseppe Guarneri (Cremona, Italy, 1698-1744), the fifth and last member of the family, grandson of Andrea, son of Giuseppe Giovanni Battista. He is more familiarly known as Joseph Guarnerius del Gesu. Guarnerius is the Latin form of the family name and Joseph the Hebrew form of Giuseppe. The addition of "del Gesu" to the name and the Greek abbreviation for Jesus (IHS) beneath a cross on the labels indicate veneration for the Holy Name.

The outline of his violins, with slight modifications, is founded on instruments of Antonio Stradivari. Modeling of the back and table are noticeably flattened, seemingly inspired by Maggini. The F holes are of Stradivari form but are usually elongated, more open, and less refined. The carefully applied oil varnish is soft in quality and of light texture, with the color varying between pale orange and orange-brown with, occasionally, a reddish tint. The length of the body is usually 13 7/8", sometimes 1/16" less.

The estimate of his total production is not more than 250 violins; there is no positive evidence that he made instruments in any other form, although some violas and at least one violoncello are attributed to him. Approximately 150 violins are known to exist.

Stradivari and Guarnerius are ranked as the greatest of violin makers, and some fine violinists prefer the instruments of Joseph Guarnerius del Gesu to those of Stradivari.

Typical label: Joseph Guarnerius fecit Cremonae anno 1737 IHS




claudio
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02/11/2005
20:39:41
RE: Joseph Guarnerius (1712)
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tengo un violin que dice joseph guarnerius fecit cremona ań 1713 en su interior
esta en estuche en buen estado pero desarmado completo con todas las partes menos las cuerdas
no se nada y recien estoy averiguando si vale algo si es copia o que es?


Ian
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09/11/2005
02:57:31
RE: Joseph Guarnerius (1735)
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I have a violin marked "Joseph Guarnerius Fecit Gremoniensis Anno 1735 I. H. J. "
It is not in very good condition, but is in its case with one bow. Do you think it will be worth anything? I live in England, UK. Thanks, Ian.


Gordon M Burns
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09/11/2005
03:01:19
RE: Joseph Guarnerius (1712)
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Hi Ian,

It'll be a copy of course, but may still be a decent copy. The only way to establish its worth in monetary terms is to have it appraised by someone who knows violins, who can see it in the flesh and hear it play.

Regards,
Gordon


Alex
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28/11/2005
08:34:29
RE: Joseph Guarnerius (1712)
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sorry, yet another one. I have been playign the violin since i was around 6, and I bought my violin which says inside
"Joseph Guarnerius Fecil (i am quite sure it is an l instead of a t, though it is hard to tell) + (a cross) Cremonae anno 1720"
the wood is textured with black flecks of ex-scrathces, but it plays beautifuly especially on the G.
I got it for around £800, would that be about right? i will post a picture of it later on.



Alex
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28/11/2005
08:44:31
RE: Joseph Guarnerius (1712)
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sorry, yet another one. I have been playign the violin since i was around 6, and I bought my violin which says inside
"Joseph Guarnerius Fecil (i am quite sure it is an l instead of a t, though it is hard to tell) + (a cross) Cremonae anno 1720"
the wood is textured with black flecks of ex-scrathces, but it plays beautifuly especially on the G.
I got it for around £800, would that be about right? i will post a picture of it later on.



Alex
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29/11/2005
08:05:28
RE: Joseph Guarnerius (1712)
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Sorry for the double post before, but I am quite positive that my violin was made in the berlin school of music in 1880 and has been insured for £1400, is that about right.


Gordon M Burns
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30/11/2005
00:40:57
RE: Joseph Guarnerius (1712)
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Hi Alex,

It's impossible to say without seeing it in the flesh and hearing it playing, to give you any kind of idea of value. Having said that, an average German trade copy of a 'del Gesu' will be worth far less. I would expect such an instrument to cost around £450-600 depending on where in the UK you bought it (upper values in London or the south, lower in the north, where we are more realistic).

A nice, hand-made copy from this era could well have easily cost you £800 (or much more). If it is a really nice one, it could be you paid below the odds for it at £800, so for insurance purposes it may have a higher value than £1,400. Your best plan is to take it along to an appraisor (or a luthier or a collector who knows their stuff) and enquire as to the 'insurance value'. As you will know, values for insurance purposes are higher than those of 'auction' and 'dealer' values, simply because you are factoring in the cost to replace it with a violin of the same standard, which may mean having to buy it from a private seller or collector, or an expensive dealer.

I hope this helps, and good luck.
Gordon


Alex
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30/11/2005
06:11:03
RE: Joseph Guarnerius (1712)
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Message:
Thanks for that Gordon. Value really doesn't amtter though when it comes to it, because I intend to play it not sell it.
thanks again


Amber
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08/12/2005
05:57:39
RE: Joseph Guarnerius (1712)
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Message:
Hi Gordon,

I have an old violin that my grandmother found
at an auction. There is a paper label on the
inside that says "Copy of Joseph Quarnerius
cremonensis faciebat anno 1731". this is
obviously a copy, but I was just curious if you
might know when this violin was made. I
understand that in order to determine the
value (if it really even has a monetary value) I
would need to take it in to have it checked out.
I just would like to know the age. I have
recently taken up fiddle lessons and love
playing it. It sounds nice and is in pretty good
shape. Thank you for your time!

Amber


Gordon M Burns
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08/12/2005
06:26:57
RE: Joseph Guarnerius (1712)
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By far the majority (probably around 99%) of copies were made from c1880-c1920.

Regards,
Gordon


Lola Gentry
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17/12/2005
15:15:13
RE: Joseph Guarnerius (1748)
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Message:
Sir,
The inscription inside reads:
Josef Guarneris fecit
Made in Cremonae anno 1748 + IHS

The 48 was penciled in. And the cross is above the IHS

Respectfully,
Lola


Gordon M Burns
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17/12/2005
23:01:07
RE: Joseph Guarnerius (1712)
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Message:
Wrong spelling of Joseph, the use of English words, and the fact that he was dead in 1748 tell me it's just another copy.

Regards,
Gordon


Clem
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30/12/2005
00:27:24
RE: Joseph Guarnerius (1712)
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I have a violin passed down from my great grandfather. Rumors is that he purchased it in Boston around 1850. The is no name or label with it. In the little chamber in a violin case (which is wood and quite fascinating), is a paper that reads Joseph Guarmerius fecit Cremone Anno. Also on note is purchased 1735. Violin needs repairs as it has been in storage a long time.



bernard
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08/1/2006
09:18:37
RE: Joseph Guarnerius (1712)
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Message:
at fist excuse me for my poor english.
I live in France in Burgondy.
I have a violon. Inside their is a paper hat reads " copie de joseph garnerius fecit cremonae anno 17 ISH". I would like to sale it. I don't know how it cost. What must I do?


Gordon M Burns
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08/1/2006
14:06:50
RE: Joseph Guarnerius (1712)
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Hi Clem,
Rumours are nothing, and rumours, and especailly family rumours lie to us. This is a fact!

The 'note' is a deception, so discount it immediately. It means nothing and has been placed there by someone wishing to impress.

You have a copy, just like the rest, dating from c.1880-1920. Such copies are considered low in value, and since yours requires work, consider it to be VERY low in value.

Regards,
Gordon


E.J.Pessanha
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17/1/2006
00:30:02
RE: Joseph Guarnerius (1712)
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Message:
Dear Gordon,

I have from my moether,a violin dat she played for a long time, was offert from my grandfader in 1920,he buy it in Italy around dat time,de violin is in goed conditions(Josef Guarnerius 1814)de kam is from a Russian fabrikant DIDELOT,can you tell me if i have something with value ? My best regards
Emanuel Pessanha


Gordon M Burns
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17/1/2006
04:19:29
RE: Joseph Guarnerius (1712)
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Hi Emanuel,

Giuseppe Guarneri was long dead by 1814. Any label spelling his name Josef (not Joseph) will originate from Germany or eastern Europe.

The name Didelot is connected with Russia, in that Auguste Didelot worked in Moscow for Salzard from 1873 to 1879. In 1880 he opened his own workshop and was still working there in 1900.

The only way to tell the value, is to have it inspected by a professional.

Best regards,
Gordon


AUDREY A.
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20/1/2006
07:37:01

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Message:
I have a full size violin with a lable inside reading; Josef Guarnerius Fecit - cremona echo 1725 - made in Germany
It was a used violin when I received it in 1937.
I played it in shool for six years mainly.It has a great tone and echo. I think it must be at least 80 or 90 years old. I just wondered if it could have any value. I HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO FIND AN APPRAISER IN BRADENTON, FLORIDA.

THANK YOU,
AUDREY




AUDREY A.
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20/1/2006
07:37:04

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I have a full size violin with a lable inside reading; Josef Guarnerius Fecit - cremona echo 1725 - made in Germany
It was a used violin when I received it in 1937.
I played it in shool for six years mainly.It has a great tone and echo. I think it must be at least 80 or 90 years old. I just wondered if it could have any value. I HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO FIND AN APPRAISER IN BRADENTON, FLORIDA.

THANK YOU,
AUDREY




Gordon M Burns
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20/1/2006
11:05:39
RE: Joseph Guarnerius (1712)
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Hi Audrey,

It could possibly be a little older than your estimate, maybe 100 yrs old or very slightly more, although, conceivably, it could be as young as the commencement of WW2 in 1939. Since you received it 'previously owned' in 1937, I guess we can pin a date to it of c.1900 to 1925.

It really is impossible to appraise and value a violin without actually seeing it in the flesh, handling it, and listeneing to it. Maybe looking outside your area, or even outside your State, will turn up someone who can appraise it. The caveat to this is that you can end up going to a whole lot of trouble and expense to have it valued, only to find that the valuation doesn't cover the cost of travelling with it to the appraisor's premises. If you take a look at eBay, for similar items, you'll see what these instruments are commonly fetching at open auction.

Regards,
Gordon


goran
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30/1/2006
13:41:06
RE: Joseph Guarnerius (1712)
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hi my name is goran and i find violin . insaid is writh
copy of josef guarnerius maid in germany.my qvestion is how much is worth

thank you


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