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Bruce
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04/12/2004
10:00:01
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 Subject: JOSEPHUS MATTH. ALBANUS
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Last month my grandfather past away and I have been cleaning out his house getting it ready to sell and I came across a violin that appears to be old. I don't know a thing about them and for some reason I can't seem to find much on this violin.
The name Josephus Matth. Albanus is on the inside of the violin.
I can email pics if that will help. just leave your email here and i will send you the pics.
Thank you
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peter
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22/3/2005
10:54:46
| RE: JOSEPHUS MATTH. ALBANUS
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i have one also, the label says it was made in 1888. bow has the name on it. so far i have not been able to get a price range. i think the violin was made in NY. let me know if you find out anything, and i'll do likewise. regards
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RM Robinson
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18/5/2005
09:33:09
| RE: JOSEPHUS MATTH. ALBANUS
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I have one also that says "Josephus Matth. Albanus (next line) Burlsani in Tiroli anno 1771". The 71 is written in by hand and may say 41; I can't be sure. The rest of the label was printed. Can anyone shed any light? The instrument belonged to my great grandfather who would have been born in the mid 19'th century.
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Jenna Leopold
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15/12/2005
14:51:22
| RE: JOSEPHUS MATTH. ALBANUS
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My story is exactly like those above. I have a violin inherited from my great-great-great grandmother who was born in 1855, graduated from the Boston Conservatory of Music and taught music after graduating. The inside of the violin says Josephus Matth. Albanus, fecit Bulsani in Tivoli, anno 1749. Can someone shed light on where this was made, it's history and how much it is worth?
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Gordon M Burns
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16/12/2005
11:53:21
| RE: JOSEPHUS MATTH. ALBANUS
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There was no maker by this name.
There was a maker Joseph (1st) bn 1680, died 1722, who was the son of a maker, Matthias. This Joseph was the only Albani maker who made reference to both Joseph and Matthias on his tickets, stating that he was the son of Matthias. His tickets ran...
Josephus filius Matth. Albani
me fecit, Bulsani in Tyroli
Anno, 17XX
Nothing else will do, i.e. this is the exact wording, and exact spelling.
If the word 'filius' is missing, it's a fake.
If the spelling is 'Albanus', 'Burlsani', 'Tiroli', or 'Tivoli', it's a fake.
If the word 'me' is missing, it's a fake.
If the date is anything other than within the period 1700-1722, it's a fake.
Basically, this maker died young (42) and so the number of genuine fiddles are very low. It was quite common practice in the German fiddle factories of the late 19th century, to label instruments purporting them to be by past makers.
This is what each of you have - a German fiddle factory instrument purporting to be something that it is not, and the factory not even bothering to get the label correct! Still, inconsistant labels help we appraisors to sort the wheat from the chaff, so they serve their purpose, I guess.
As to value, probably about the same as similar German factory fiddles, c.1875-1900, being sold on eBay right now.
Regards,
Gordon
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Chris Walter
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08/1/2006
11:36:58
| RE: JOSEPHUS MATTH. ALBANUS
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What about the father?
I have a violin with two tickets as follows:
1. Mathias Albano in Tiroli Bulsani 1690 (90 in handwriting)
2. REVU DANS LES ATELIERS CH. LE LYONNAIS LUTHIER Nantes AN... Réparé en 1942 par CH. Lelyonnais (In handwriting)
The violin is in parts for professional restoration. The luthier confirms age and style to be from around 1700. Scolarship found in libraries confirms alternate spellings as Mathias Alban, Mathias Albanus, Matthias Albanus, not including the above one. I am aware about the suspicious "Tiroli" too.
I wonder, if dendrochronological analysis could lead to a separation between a 1700 (original) or a 1900 (copy) violin. Another possibility would be paper and/or ink analysis. I compared the tree rings of the two halves of the spruce deck and found they originate from the same tree. I read about dendrochronological analyses of instruments by Stainer, who was a contemporary and neighbour of Matthias Albanus. Who can point me to the corresponding dendrochronological atlases of the region around Bolzano in the Italian Alps for the time around 1700?
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Gordon M Burns
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08/1/2006
13:00:15
| RE: JOSEPHUS MATTH. ALBANUS
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Hi Chris,
It is quite normal to have the two halves of the belly from the same tree, since they have traditionally been split from the same billet.
The second ticket is obviously a repairer's note, and as such, will bear no relevance to the age of the instrument.
With regards to the first ticket, dated 1690, this can only be Mathias (2nd), 1650-1715. First look at the political map of Europe at the time... Bozen/Bolzano was continually changing hands, between Italy and the Austro-Hungarian Empire, during the Spanish Wars for the Accession (history homework necessary).
Although a few tickets were used by this maker, the only one close to yours (being made in Bozen [Bozen is Germanised, or Bolzano, in Italian], and not made in Rome, where he worked for a time) runs thus...
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Matthias Albanus me fecit
Bulsani in Tyroli, [date, which MUST be after 1705]
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
In 1690, this maker was using a ticket of a quite different format...
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Mattio Alban. fecit
Botzen 1700
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It seems that your instrument bears a ticket which is a hybrid of those used by this maker, though not complying with any particular one of them. 'Tyroli' never appears as 'Tiroli', which reveals it to be what it probably is, a fake ticket in a fake fiddle.
So, in my opinion, you have a violin with a fraudulent ticket. This basically means that it was not made by the maker to whom it refers, ergo, you have a 'fake' violin, as are most of them. This maker was very heavily faked, especially late 1800's, by German fiddle factories.
Of course, dendrochronology will reveal the truth (well, it will reveal only that the tree was growing at a certain point in historical time, not that this maker used it for his violins), but this is a VERY expensive route to take if you are merely clutching at straws. I think that a paper/ink analysis will probably turn out much less expensive, and will reveal that the ticket is from much later than it purports to be.
Regards,
Gordon
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Chris Walter
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08/1/2006
15:14:08
| RE: JOSEPHUS MATTH. ALBANUS
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Hi Gordon, thanks for the prompt and competent reply. I understand that by the very nature of your position you tend to discourage an owners genuine enthusiasm for his/her treasures. You did not, however, mine since I had my doubts about the authenticity myself.
I think the word "fake", not to mention "fraudulent" should be banned for violins. It may be appropriate for Rolex watches. Why? Just count the number of skilled performing artists, wanting a violin best showing their talent, not mentioning all the to-be artists, integrated over the years with the number of once alive "branded" violin makers like Amati, Guarneri and Stradivari, times the productive lifetime of each of them. Isn't there a gross mismatch? I would call them great artisans, understandably trying to imitate as much as possible, their even greater teachers, struggling to survive and feed their families. Bohemia, for example, is 90% woods, whereas Bolzano is situated at the most important north-south gateway through the Alps and a bridge to the most important east-west connection to the Vintschgau through Merano. Why else did Albanus decide to look for better opportunities, by leaving Rome? His Tyrolian violins btw have Maggini-like dimensions compared to the smaller Italian standards.
If your Mathias (2nd) is the same as Matthias Alban, your data are in contrast to this, which I found at http://www.lutesandguitars.co.uk/htm/cat10.htm:
"Matthias Alban (1634 - 1712) worked initially in Bozen, an important city in the Tyrol on the trade route between Augsburg and Venice. He is registered as being a violin maker there in 1671, at the time of his first marriage; it is not known who he learnt his violin-making from, but the varnish of his violins suggests that he was probably trained in Italy. The presence of the large Markt in Bozen meant that its instrument makers could both sell their products and obtain their raw materials easily; varnish ingredients and timber for instrument making were known to have been traded in this important Markt."
Before deciding on his signatures, I think it is vital, to agree on his year of birth.
Wrt dendrochronological dating of violins there is a general consensus, that the wood used for making violins has not been aged for more than 5 years or so (exceptions possible). My principle question about Alpine turn-of the 17th century dendrochronological maps is still unanswered.
I really enjoy this discussion with an expert, last not least for academic training.
Chris
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Chris Walter
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08/1/2006
15:23:32
| RE: JOSEPHUS MATTH. ALBANUS
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Hi Gordon, forgot to ask you about a reference for the ticket:
Mattio Alban. fecit
Botzen 1700
Chris
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Gordon M Burns
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08/1/2006
16:07:04
| RE: JOSEPHUS MATTH. ALBANUS
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On the contrary, I wish nothing more than an owner's enthusiasm for their instrument, but based soley on fact, not on fantasy. The words 'fake' and 'fraudulent' are more applicable to violins than any other object in modern or historical life, yes, even more so than 'fake' Rolex watches. There has been a determined move during the last 125 years or so, (mainly by Gernam factories, and to a lesser extent by the Czech factories) to represent an item as something that it is not, so what other words are appropriate? OK, to anyone with any kind of a brain, most of these 'fakes' are immediately apparent for what they are, but some are so cleverly done as to be calculated to deceive the expert, let alone the 'common man'. Immitation is not the same as 'after' in terms of violin making - one can make a violin 'after' the Master, but to represent it as being 'by' the Master is unforgiveable. We are not talking about independent makers, struggling to feed families... we are talking about factories churning out thousands of instruments each year, paying their employees in peanuts.
The link you provided is, as far as I can make out, concerned soley with Lutes, and has nothing to do with violins. Although it makes mention of Mathias Alban, the dates of his life on this planet contradicts everything I have in reference, therefore one could assume that the research there on the site you mention is not all that comprehensive or accurate. Most of my reference material gives his 'period' to with a year or two, and not at all in agreement with this Web site. So you believe the Web site, if you care to, and I'll go with my reference material.
You will find that, for quite obvious reasons (when you think about it), dendrochronology data is not published in the public domain. The people who are making a living by using this data want to retain that 'living' and by releasing the data to the public, that 'living' would, by definition, be quite severely compromised, thus it is kept under lock and key, and available only at a price! You are correct in your assumptions that, in the main, seasoning of from 5 to 7 years is the norm for spruce, and has been for centuries, it seems.
My kindest regards,
Gordon
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Chris Walter
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08/1/2006
19:04:35
| RE: JOSEPHUS MATTH. ALBANUS
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This thing gets interesting.
1. We are talking about independent makers, since we are discussing about a violin which is at least about 100 years old. Mass production with underpaid workers started much later.
2. The link I provided happens to concentrate on lutes, but clearly refers to Matthias Alban as a "violin maker", residing in Bozen in 1671 and having been trained in Italy.
3. There are numerous references dating Albanus violins before 1705: The Orpheum Foundation of Musical Instruments in Thoiry, France has a 1680 Matthias Albanus violin (http://www.jsbach.net/images/albanus.html and http://www.mdw.ac.at/I105/orpheon/Seiten/Instruments/violine/vl-albanus.htm). The young German-born violinist So-Young Kim plays a 1696 Mathias Albanus violin. David Miller of "The Classical Quartet" plays a 1687 viola. Gottfried von der Goltz plays a 1695 Matthias Albanus. What about all the Matteo Albani (1620-1712) violins at cozio.com ? He is according to wikipedia's encyclopedia the same as Matthias Alban).
4. I would be extremely grateful, if you would share the evidence for your reference material, concerning the above statements about the two tickets used by Albanus.
Thank you very much for not getting impatient.
Chris
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Gordon M Burns
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09/1/2006
00:12:45
| RE: JOSEPHUS MATTH. ALBANUS
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1) Independent workers have always been around, and so have factory-type workshops, in a way. I think if you could travel back in time to the workshops of Nicolo Amati and Antonio Stradiuari, you'd find that these were the germ of what was to follow hundreds of years later. You are quite wrong in assuming factories and mass production starting much later than 100 years ago. From around 1860 there were factories around around Mittenwald, Klingenthal, Bubenreuth and Dresden, and by 1880 some of the factory operations were quite huge, employing hundreds of workers. It was the same in Mirecourt, France, where some workshops were mass-producing in the 1860s onwards (Jerome Thibouville-Lamy, et al).
2 & 3) We are talking about the same maker here... Matthias (2nd)? Maybe not! The father died in 1673, so couldn't have placed a 1690 ticket inside the violin (Henley) or in 1712 (Jalovec), in which case he could, which is a huge discrepency. Personally, I'll go with Jalovec on this one. Matthias (2nd) dates are 1650-1715. My mention of the ticket [date, which MUST be after 1705] did not refer to his making violins only after this date, but to the use of this particular ticket after this date. Prior to c.1705 he used differently formatted tickets, as the type 2 ticket above, with various spellings of Mattio, Mattiu, Mathias and Matthias. My point is that the ticket inside your violin is that of the father, who died 17 years before the reported date of 1690 (Henley) or was still making in 1690 (Jalovec). All the instruments referred to as being from before c.1665 will be those of the father (son not born until 1650, so not trained until c.1665 at the earliest); those from c.1665 to c.1673 (Henley) or c.1706 (Jalovec) will be from both father and son; and those from c.1673 (Henley) or c.1706 (Jalovec) to c.1715 will be those of the son only (father stopped making, according to Jalovec, c.1706).
4) The dates and ticket references are nothing other than examples of known tickets, details obtained from Henley and Jalovec.
There may have been some misunderstanding by me on earlier posts, and I hope that this one corrects it. I thought you were speaking of an instrument of Matthias (2nd) when, upon reading it once more, it seems you were referring to a violin which may have been made by the father. The obvious misunderstanding probably arose from the report of his death (Henley) in 1673, which like the reported death of Mark Twain, was greatly exaggerated, it may seem.
All this is academic, though, as both Matthias makers have been unmercilessly copied and faked on a wholesale scale, so any violin bearing an Alban ticket has only a small chance of being genuine, even given their quite high output.
Regards,
Gordon
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Chris Walter
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09/1/2006
09:49:15
| RE: JOSEPHUS MATTH. ALBANUS
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Hi Gordon, thanks for all the additional info, and thanks for the references. I have to go to the library and get these books. Do you exclude that both, Henley and Jalovec, are wrong? Since they disagree, the probability is 50%! I found this at http://www.musikland-tirol.at/english/html_en/musichistory/mg_instrumentmaking.html supporting Jalovec (did he copy it from here?):
"In 1671 the farmer’s son and 'violin maker from Caltern' Matthias Alban (1634-1712) was admitted as a resident of Bozen. He was the most famous Tyrolean violin maker after Jakob Stainer. His violins were close to those of the latter in tone; their masterly execution recalls the Füssen school. Matthias Alban’s violin bows are said to have surpassed those from Cremona. Of his sons, Johann Michael Alban (1677-1730) took over the workshop of his father-in-law Wolfgang Sagmayr in Graz in 1702, and Josef (I) Alban (1680-1722) that of his father in Bozen in 1712. Josef (II) Anton Alban(i) (1720-1771) was a grandson of Matthias Alban and pupil of Johann Michael Alban. After journeyman’s years in Vienna he became a resident of Bozen in 1759 and established himself successfully in the town with his trade." No mention of two Matthias's.
The same reference also contains the spelling of a ticket by Peter Sebastian Wirnitzer as: "[...] Bulsani in Tiroli Anno 1693", indicating that the alternate form Tiroli was used at the time. Don't you think, that people who don't even remember how to write their names, would be sure how the wrote Tyrol the last time?
And lastly, could it not be that my violin is the first example of yet another ticket by this Alban, who apparently was a bit inconsistent in writing tickets?
As I said, I'll go to the library, and try also to find a dendrochronological atlas. Since the violin is open I was able to take very high resolution fotos of the inside, making it easy to produce a tree-ring graph.
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Giorgio della Marca
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08/2/2006
02:48:43
| RE: Mathias Albani Violin.
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Dear all,
I'm sorry for my English not really good.
I'm Italian,resident in Rome and I have a violin with the following insite label: Mathias Albani in Bulsani Thyroli 1720.
I just started since two days my enquires and found that:Mathias was born 1634 and death on 1712. So as is possible he make the violin on 1720?
I have send message in Bolzano ( BULSANI)asking some informations and books on the Albani family.
Moreover the next 16 th of February an expert of Bonhams will be in Rome and I asked an expertise/evaluation to proceed with restauration of violin belong to my father.
Tanks for all suggestions.
Giorgio
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Gordon M Burns
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08/2/2006
10:57:58
| RE: JOSEPHUS MATTH. ALBANUS
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Buon giorno, Giorgio,
A violin dated after his recorded death is obviously a fake. Your violin may still be worth quite a lot, though, if it is a good fake. I wish you well with Bonham's expert.
Regards,
Gordon
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chen
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11/3/2006
14:16:29
| RE: JOSEPHUS MATTH. ALBANUS
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Dear sir ,
I also got a violin labeled"matthias albanus me fecic,Bulfani in Tyroli. 1706" but it's sharp too diffrent from others. Do you all have even heard of that.
I have taken some pictures, if you want to see.
thanks
Regards
chen
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