Post a message.
The Violinman [ return ]
FromMessage
Ruben
Guest
 Email

03/12/2004
15:15:21
Subject: Yet another copy of a Stradivarius
IP: Logged

Message:
My father has an Antonius Stradivarius violin

Label inside reads:

Hand made copy of
Antonius Stradivarius
Faciebat Anno 1713
W-Germany

On top and above that text is a smaller label that reads:

3/4 4118

This smaller label is covering some text that ends in:

ck

Any information you can provide on its monetary value (if any) or where it was made will be of tremendous help.

Thank you.






Gordon
Guest
 Email

24/1/2005
13:23:02
RE: Yet another copy of a Stradivarius
IP: Logged

Message:
Hi Ruben,

Made in W Germany, puts it post WW2, and probably more to the mid-1950's or later.

3/4 indicates it is a 3/4 size, not a 4/4 full size. 4118 probably indicates the factory number (for it is surely a factory fiddle).

The value is probably very low, considering the size (anything but 4/4 realises relatively low prices, especially for modern fiddles).

Regards,

Gordon




Emilio
Guest
 Email

14/2/2005
13:01:26
RE: Yet another copy of a Stradivarius
IP: Logged

Message:
copy of
Antonius Stradivarius Cremonensis
Faciebat Anno 1721
Made in Germany 281-3(numbers are in pencil)
Pictue of a Globe and the word Framus

Any information you can provide on its monetary value (if any) woul be helpful.

Thank you.


Paul
Guest
 Email

28/4/2005
08:41:04
RE: Yet another copy of a Stradivarius
IP: Logged

Message:
I am guessing you are tiring of this. Once again, our violin says copie de(?) Antonius
Stradiuarius Cremon_nfis Anno 1721--double-lined circle - can only make out cross - note the "v" is a "u" and the "s" is the old "f" version. At some point someone drew with pencil an arrow pointing at the third "n" in Anno. Opposite F hole says "made in France", which I know rather disqualifies it. Original casket-type case with
hook closure. Original bow - end is I think three part - looks like maybe mother of pearl inside circle surrounded by dark metal with pattern or lettering, cannot see it well then metal surround that is 8-sided, of course as is the bow lenght itself. Nothing on the bow has been changed, except no hair. Other end has the same mother of pearl appearance. The casket case is simple with a primitive piece with which to hold the bow in place at one end and what was string,right now, to hold the bow. The case is black and has never been re-finished. The violin itself was finished by a master craftsman wood finisher who was to produce a violin for display as opposed to playing. All pieces of the violin appear to be original. Don't you just get tired of these same old emails? At least I know it was used by my father for lessons as a child. He was born 1920 and it was owned by a Nun for an indeterminable time prior to that.
Any information, etc.
Thank you, Paul


Gordon
Guest
 Email

28/4/2005
09:20:24
RE: Yet another copy of a Stradivarius
IP: Logged

Message:
Hi Paul,

Your copy is probably Mirecourt, France, c.1880-1900. I will now address the points you made...

1) "the 'v' is a 'u'" Totally wrong - normally, people use V whereas it SHOULD be a U. His name was Stradiuari, not Stradivari, as all the ancient Cremona town official records show. The use of the lower case 'f' is as you correctly state, the form of 's' used after a consonant in the 18th Century.

2) The spelling of Annno (with 3 n's) is something I have never seen before.

3) Bow seems to be a pretty standard trade bow for the period.

4) Ditch the case! This type of case is an open invitation to woodworm, and has no place in the storage of what may be a decent fiddle...

5) ...Decent that is, if it hadn't been refinished by someone who knew not what he was doing (although he may have been an expert refinisher, unless he was also a luthier and knowledgeable about specific violin varnishes, application, and refinishing, he could have ruined the instrument - even if not ruined, he has undoubtedly reduced its possible market value to a half, or probably less).

Regards,
Gordon


Paul
Guest
 Email

28/4/2005
09:51:09
RE: Yet another copy of a Stradivarius
IP: Logged

Message:
Thank you. As far as Annno - typo. Sorry. About the refinishing... great. The case goes!
Thanks again, Paul


Betty
Guest
 Email

30/7/2005
05:47:40
RE: Yet another copy of a Stradivarius
IP: Logged

Message:
I have a copy of a Stradivarius violin dated 1902 and has the casket case and pearl inlay. I would like very much to donate it to a museum, but do not know who to contact.
It was a gift to me in 1947 and I do not want to sell it.
If you can be of help, please let me hear from you.


Gordon
Guest
 Email

30/7/2005
11:06:07
RE: Yet another copy of a Stradivarius
IP: Logged

Message:
Hi Betty,

I'm sorry to have to be harsh, but I really don't think a museum will be interested. You have a modern instrument in their terms, and of little value or historical interest. It is just one of millions and does nothing more than represent probably the worst ever period of violin making in the history of musical instruments.

If the ticket states by whom it was made, then you may find a place for it with the family of the deceased maker, but since most violins in this period were mass-produced it is doubtful that even this would be the case.

I'm sorry if the truth hurts, but the violin world is a strage, often unnatural place, where some examples are worth millions, whilst most are worth almost nothing.

Warmest regards, and the best of luck,
Gordon


wayne
Guest
 Email

02/9/2005
00:52:58
RE: Yet another copy of a Stradivarius
IP: Logged

Message:
Hi' I was wondering if you could help me...
I inherited an old violin, and not sure of its origin... The ticket inside reads...Laurentius Guadganini Pater et alumnus Antonij Stradivari fecit Placenti ac anno= 1695... at the end of 1695 it has a number 1 written in pencil...
and at the beggining ia a signature... Starv ii...
it has a black casket type box with it...
cheers... wayne.


Gordon
Guest
 Email

02/9/2005
01:10:09
RE: Yet another copy of a Stradivarius
IP: Logged

Message:
Hi Wayne,

Your fiddle is in the same category as those elswhere on this forum, purporting to be made by various famous Italian makers, such as Stradiuari, Maggini, Amati, Guarneri, etc.

If you really think it may be special, I suggest you haul it along to a luthier or appraisor to look at, but don't be disappointed with the findings.

Regards,
Gordon


Ian
Guest
 Email

07/9/2005
21:04:21
RE: Yet another copy of a Stradivarius
IP: Logged

Message:
The violin I bought about 30 years ago for $20 in Perth Western Australia comes in a very old wooden case with a number latches.
The label inside says "Antonius Stradivarius Cremonensis Faciebat Anon 1713 Made in Czechoslovakia. I guess it's still worth $20 - Can anyone end my glimmer of hope?

Ian


Gordon Burns
Guest
 Email

07/9/2005
23:48:52
RE: Yet another copy of a Stradivarius
IP: Logged

Message:
Date can only be from 1918 & 1989, as Czechoslovakia existed only between these years.

Gordon


sondra
Guest
 Email

11/9/2005
17:10:30
RE: Yet another copy of a Stradivarius???
IP: Logged

Message:
stradiuarvius antonius cremonenfis violin france faciebat anno
1721

there are other markings inside .....where do you recommend I take
to find if it has any value couldn't go wrong for a dollar

thank you for your time



Yen
Guest
 Email

11/9/2005
18:44:31
RE: Yet another copy of a Stradivarius
IP: Logged

Message:
Hi

I have just got myself a new (old) violin

inside is written -

Stradiuarius Antonius Cremonenfis Faciebat Anno
1723

I don't really care if it's true or fake...
If you can provide me any information of it....

Thanks
-Yen-



Theresa
Guest
 Email

01/10/2005
00:28:16
Violins
IP: Logged

Message:
if anyone has an Antonius Stradiuarius Violin.. go to a guy that knows something about it... Is the date on the violin Before 1737 itīs probaly not a copy, Antonius made about 620 Violins before he died in 1737 he was 93 when he died..
http://www.violinateljen.com/fakta/strad.html
Have a nice day and take care of your Violins ;)


Gordon Burns
Guest
 Email

01/10/2005
01:34:19
RE: Yet another copy of a Stradivarius
IP: Logged

Message:
Sorry, but you are misinformed and as such you have just misinformed someone else.

1) If the date on the label is any date whatsoever, it is extremely likely to be a copy.

2) Stradiuari made around 1100 violins, violas, 'cellos, guitars and harps. Most of them were violins. About 650 of them still survive.

Gordon


peter
Guest
 Email

20/10/2005
09:23:06
I have Stradivarius
IP: Logged

Message:
My wifeīs family had a old violin, and they donīt know if itīs legitimus or a copy or what, we need to know, in the interior had a label with a LION with word like dignalone or dignatone somethin like that, says ANTONIUS STRADIVARIUS CREMONENSIS
FOCIEBAT ANNO 1713, MADE IN CZECHOSLOVAKIA, some body can tell us about the violin we have.
THANKS.


Gordon M Burns
Guest
 Email

20/10/2005
10:17:06
RE: Yet another copy of a Stradivarius
IP: Logged

Message:
If you were type of person to research this forum, instead of expecting others to answer the same questions over and over again, you already have read the stuff regarding the Ligna toy, furniture and violin factories, Luby, Czechoslovakia (the violin section calling themselves Lignatone).

You'd also have read that Antonio Stradiuari died in 1737.

You'd also already know all about the 20th century political map of Europe, and the fact that Czechoslovakia was formed after the signing of the Treaty of Versailles (no, not in the 1700s, but after the 1914-18 war) and that before this event, it was known as Bohemia, Moravia and Slovakia, and part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

Now that I have done your homework for you, perhaps you can answer your own question...

Is it a copy?

Gordon


PETER
Guest
 Email

20/10/2005
12:46:09
RE: Yet another copy of a Stradivarius
IP: Logged

Message:
hi!
ok, I have a copy of a stradivarius, what its the level of value, low? how much I can sell it.

thanks
Peter.


Gordon M Burns
Guest
 Email

20/10/2005
12:53:56
RE: Yet another copy of a Stradivarius
IP: Logged

Message:
Check out eBay... in the US, such copies are selling for around $100, an the UK for around Ģ65. This is in playing condition. If it needs work, then expect to pay around $100 minimum to get it set up properly... basically, it is practically worthless if not properly set up and in playing order.

Gordon


Saul Meza Flores
Guest
 Email

24/10/2005
12:37:49
RE: Yet another copy of a Stradivarius
IP: Logged

Message:
hello.
my grand father gives to me his stradivarius violin, he told me: this a very expensive instrument, i just want to know how expensive or chipest its this thing, i was read some answers in this forum but i need to see about my violin. in the inside label says antoniuos stradivarius cremonensis, fociebat anno 1713, made in czechoslovakia by lignatone. Just tell me if its good or worth try to put in sale this violin.
i apreciate your answer.
thank you


Gordon M Burns
Guest
 Email

24/10/2005
13:12:32
RE: Yet another copy of a Stradivarius
IP: Logged

Message:
Made in the Lignatone factory, Luby, Czechoslovakia, no earlier than 1920 but probably more like the 1950's.

Check out eBay for an idea of how much these are selling for, but don't shoot the messenger when you find they go for peanuts. An expensive instrument this is not. The Ligna factory was apparently operated in three main areas, toys, furniture, and instruments. This may give you some idea of the quite poor quality to expect from an instrument made under such a regime.

Regards,
Gordon


David Lewis
Guest
 Email

29/10/2005
10:02:33
RE: Yet another copy of a Stradivarius
IP: Logged

Message:
My dad left me with an older violin and the sticker reads exactly:

Antonius Stradiuarius Cremonenfis
Faciebat Anno 1778 (everything is printed except for 78 in 1778 and it appears to be penciled in)

Also there is the symbol AtS which is circled???

There is no mention of country in which the violin is made. Could you shed some light on this violin's history for me.

Thanks,
David L



Gordon M Burns
Guest
 Email

29/10/2005
11:35:36
RE: Yet another copy of a Stradivarius
IP: Logged

Message:
Yes, it's a copy. Stradiuari died in 1737, 51 years before it is purported that he made your fiddle. He was a clever maker, but not that clever!

Having no mention of its country of origin makes it undoubtedly a German factory made 'trade fiddle', maybe 1880 to 1900 but possibly later.

As to its true origin, this will forever remain a mystery, steeped in the era (and location, i.e. Germany) that did more for the denegration of quality violins than any other place or time in the entire history of this fine instrument, and single-handedly undid all the good that the masters of the past had managed to achieve... even to the state where over 100 years later, the harm has not been undone.

To say that the whole of the German factory made pieces of tat should be stamped on, used as firewood, and destroyed forever may seem a little radical to some, but if this could be accomplished in a stroke, we would be talking about quality here on this forum, not quantity, and maybe those who still make fine instruments would be valued, instead of struggling to make a living.

At the end of the day, it is all down to what you, as an owner and player expect from an instrument, or rather what you will put up with! For every reasonable sounding German violin, there are 1,000 that play like cigar boxes, and for every really decent one, there are a million bad ones.

I hope this puts things a little in perspective.

Kindest regards,
Gordon


paula
Guest
 Email

17/11/2005
06:18:57
RE: Yet another copy of a Stradivarius
IP: Logged

Message:

Yet another violin. My Dad had this violin in the storage closet, it was his Father's. I'm sure this is a massed produced one, however is it worth restoring?

markings are:
model
Antonius Stradivarius Cremonenfis
N0. 4 1/2 Faciebat Anno 17.

there is no "made in" MARKINGS.

Thank you for your time.


Gordon M Burns
Guest
 Email

17/11/2005
11:30:02
RE: Yet another copy of a Stradivarius
IP: Logged

Message:
This is obviously a factory made Strad copy, and probably German in origin.

Base your decision on what the restorer tells you it will cost. Most restorers I know will tell you how much it will cost to restore, and how much the finished article will be worth, so you can decide whether it's worth having the work done. To be fair, decent restorers base their fees on the work, not on the value of the instrument (only fair, since the same work is involved in restoring a factory fiddle as in restoring a master fiddle). Often, the restoration cost will exceed the resale value of the instrument... in the case of a family heirloom, this often is of little importqance to the owner current, and the work is undertaken anyway, but in cases where the current owner wants to sell it, obviously the work necessary will not be worth doing, since the sale will be at a loss to the cost of the restoration fees.

Many 'in need of restoration' fiddles appear on aBay, and maybe this is a place you should explore to assess the value of what you have.

Regards,
Gordon


Paul
Guest
 Email

27/11/2005
01:21:51
RE: Yet another copy of a Stradivarius
IP: Logged

Message:
I have recently aquired from my late grandfather an old violin bearing the lable "Antonius Stradivarius Cremonensis/ Facibat Anno 1721".The 17 is printed and the 21 is written in pencil. There is also a circle containing the symbols 'A' and 'S' with a cross between them.
There is no other markings on the lable. It has recently been restrung but I don't play violin and have no idea how good it is.

I assume it is a copy ,of course, but could you give me an estimate of its value.

Thanks,
Paul


Gordon M Burns
Guest
 Email

27/11/2005
07:58:09
RE: Yet another copy of a Stradivarius
IP: Logged

Message:
It is a copy, and it's not possible to give you even a rough estimate on value without seeing it, handiling it and hearing it play. That's why valuations are never given on this forum.

Regards,
Gordon


Marcela
Guest
 Email

02/12/2005
21:29:18
RE: Yet another copy of a Stradivarius
IP: Logged

Message:
Hi,
I know I have a copy and a not very expensive copy at that. It needs
repair but I have grown attached to it. What I find fascinating at this
moment is the story of the copies. Finding out about where they
were made, compare them, etc. etc.
I wanted to know if there were any books on this subject and any
other places where I could get information on them.
Thanks,
Marcela
(NOT a proud Stradivarious owner;o) )


Gordon M Burns
Guest
 Email

03/12/2005
13:27:54
RE: Yet another copy of a Stradivarius
IP: Logged

Message:
Copies have been around for 150 years at least. The knowhow in identifying a copy is not gained from reading books; it is experience. There are basic facts that are eminently identifiable in telling what is real and what is not.

Taking it one stage further, it follows that it is important that one is able to identify the country of origin. Fortunately for us, the different schools display different 'features' and thus it is quite easy to identify one from the other.

Having said that, our knowledge does not come easily, or, it must be said, cheaply (most appraisors have a library of reference material costing several hundreds of pounds). The reference material is only that... basically, there is nothing equal to hands-on experience and books are used to confirm suspicions rather than base an opinion upon. The hands-on stuff only happens with many years of doing it, going to auctions, examining genuine, accredited instruments... basically, doing ones own homework.

Certainly, the kind of information you wish to acquire will NEVER be available on-line, and certainly not through this forum.

So, Marcela, there is a lot of homework to be done, and you are the only one who can do it.

Regards,
Gordon


Marcela
Guest
 Email

03/12/2005
14:47:09
RE: Yet another copy of a Stradivarius
IP: Logged

Message:
Thanks Gordon,
A new challenge to take!
Marcela


P 1


Post a reply to this message:
Name:
Email:
Notify me when I get a reply to my message:Yes  No

Subject:
Message:

[ Home | About Me | Violin Gallery | The Store | Community | Links | FAQ | Contact ]

Đ 2002 Graham Welsh. All rights reserved.