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Ronald Smith
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06/9/2004
04:38:42
Subject: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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My violin is at least 50 years old. The inside label reads:

Copy of 113(stamped)
Antonius Stadivarius
Made in Czechoslovakia

I was wondering if you can tell me who the maker was. There are no other identifiable marks that I can find. Maybe you can tell me were to look for marks that may be hidden. Thanks


alastair
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07/9/2004
02:37:55
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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No-one will be able to tell you who the maker is.
Thousands of violins with the Strad. label - probably hundreds of thousands worldwide - have been produced in the past couple of hundred years. In what is now the Czech Republic, there is a town called Luby where lots of instruments were and are made. Your violin may well be from there, but there will no record anywhere of who made it. Sorry!


Barbara Inglessis
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18/12/2004
13:04:15
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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I too have a violin which is a Stradivarius copy. The maker is Herman Rainer. Any information on this?
Thanks.


Barbara Inglessis
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18/12/2004
13:09:31
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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I too have a violin which is a Stradivarius copy. The maker is Herman Rainer. Any information on this?
Also, I have one made in Germany,Hans Schimer, by Adolph V.
If you can give me any information, I would appreciate it.

Thanks,
Barbara


daniel pires
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20/2/2005
02:57:12
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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I`m violine czecoslovakia juan juzek 1924 .please avaliablo instrument


Gordon
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18/3/2005
12:03:28
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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Hi Daniel,

If you have a genuine Jan Juzek then you have a pretty decent violin. There are a few 'fakes' around, but not that many.

Juzek worked in Prague, and his models were based on those of Guarneri 'del Gesu', but with elongated f-holes, and an extremely well cut Stradiuarian scroll. His violins are varnished in a soft golden-brown, often with a hint of red, and they are described in Henley as having a 'bright and large tone'.

Genuine tickets ran...

++++++++++++++++++++++++++
John Juzek (with signature)
Violinmaker in Prague
xxx DATE xxx
Made in Czechoslovakia
++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Apparently, all his violins bore his signature on the ticket, and most unusually, for this period, were in the English language, and not in the Czech language.

I hope this is of help to you, Daniel.

My kindest regards,

Gordon




Molly
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23/3/2005
16:58:56
Copy of Antonius Stradivarius
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My grandfather gave me a violin on the inside it says Copy of a Stradivarius made in Germany. It has beautiful I would think it to be leaf carvings on the scroll, the back looks like two pieces and apears to me to look kinda "tiger striped". I think it may be from the 30's or 40's my grandfather told me it was old when he got it. I'm not sure when that was but he gave it to me when he was around 63 years old. He gave it to me in a case with a bow that is wooden looks very very old and has the original hair and says made in Japan. Could you please give me an estimate of what they might be worth and possibly any more information you might be able to tell me about them.


Gordon
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23/3/2005
20:23:32
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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Hi Molly,

Please read a few of the hundreds of posts on this board relating to Stradiuari copies, and you will then realise that a) it is impossible to give you any history on your violin, and b) it is impossible to give you a valuation of it.

I think that the date you give may be about correct, possibly earlier, say 1920. It will be a German trade fiddle (i.e. factory made) otherwise it would have the maker's ticket inside, instead of the generic Strad ticket.

The bow is probably not original to the violin, since a Japanese bow made before the war would be more likely to have the word Nippon, not Japan (Nippon is what the Japanese call their country).

The wooden case, if what we refer to as a 'coffin case', was in use to house these trade fiddles from c.1875 to c.1920, gradually becoming cheaper and less well made, until they discovered that they could make them even cheaper and nastier from compressed cardboard. Even the case may not be original to the violin.

As you can appreciate, things like violins, bows and cases part company quite regularly and end up being paired with versions from a different era. Bows get broken, or are found to be worth more than the fiddle, then sold separately and replaced with a cheaper version. Sometimes, an old 'coffin' case will be paired with a newer fiddle either because the newer cardboard case has fallen to pieces, or maybe in an attempt to make the violin seem older than it is. Conversely, since 'coffin' cases are a magnet for woodworm, many thousands of them have been removed from circulation by luthiers and repairers such as me, to prevent worm damage to an instrument, and a new case provided in its place.

Thus, one can never date an instrument by its case or the bow that accompanies it.

If you really want to know about your violin, it is of little use asking about it in a place such as this. You stand a much greater chance by taking it along to a luthier or appraisor, who may be able to shed some light on things.

Regards,

Gordon



Dayna
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29/3/2005
03:42:06
Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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I have a violin . have been trying to figure out how old it is.. and who the maker is... the inside says....Antonfax strdiuarfus cremouensis Pasicbet anse 1721.. It is stamped on the outside with S 3287.... Can you help me please ?


Gordon
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29/3/2005
06:08:31
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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Hi Dayna,

Beats me, although sounds very much like it was made by some Chinese factory that never mastered the latin alphabet, or by someone with a warped sense of humour. The wording on the ticket bears little resemblance in spelling to the real thing, i.e. the ticket that is is probably meant to represent, namely...

+++++++++++++++++++++++++
Antonius Stradiuarius Cremonensis
Faciebat anno 1721
+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Like I have mentioned so many times, it's best to take it to someone with a bit of knowledge, who can give you an idea after seeing it in the flesh. It impossible to give any opinion as to date, manufacturer or value with the information you give.

Regards,
Gordon


Kris
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31/3/2005
08:04:52
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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hello,

I found yesturday an old violin. it has a label inside wich says it is an stradivarius, but made in chehoslowakia. now, i know it has not a stradivarius, but it is atleast 80-90 years old.
where can i found some details about it?

thanks, kris


Gordon
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31/3/2005
11:19:29
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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Hi Kris,

No, it is not 80-90 yrs old. It can be a maximum of 85 yrs old, and a minimum of 15 yrs old. Please take the time to read my previous scrawlings on the subject of Czech factory fiddles, and you'll soon realise that it is not likely to be pre-1948, more likely mid-50's onwards, depending on wood and varnish types, as well as on overall build quality.

You will not find much, if anything at all, on the web. To find out more, you must really study long and hard, which will include trips to Czech Republic, lots of 'contact-making', and lots of question-asking, if you are fortunate enough to find anyone who will tell you anything about violin making during the dark years between 1948 and 1989 when the Russians occupied that part of the world and oppressed those fine people.

Regards,

Gordon


Carinna
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18/4/2005
09:20:47
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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My Grandpa gave me a violin , that he got at an auction with a label on the inside that says Antonius Straduvarius Cremonensis Faciebat Anno 1713 Made in Czechoslovakia, the picture is a fiddle inside a diamond with the initials KH or KI on it, the diamond rests on a globe. Something sits above the initials on the diamond. ever seen one like this before? On the handle are the numbers 2/38 and 2/37. What do these mean?


Gordon
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18/4/2005
12:17:41
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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Hi Carinna,

I think (almost sure) that the KH is the initials used by the factory situated in the town of Kutna Hora in Bohemia. On the other hand, if it is KH, then it is likely a product of the Pilar workshops in Hradec Kralove, Bohemia. In either case, it is likely made between 1920 or so and c.1950, if this helps.

The 'handle' as you call it baffles me... do you mean the neck? If so, I think that they are probably numbers added post-factory, i.e. by a previous owner. They will have no significance to the instrument or its value.

Regards,
Gordon


Clyde Nakamura
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19/4/2005
07:55:04
Guarnerius vs. Strad - John Juzek Master Art Copy
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Hi there,

What would be the value of a John Juzek "Master Art Copy" c.1926 - 1928 between the "Guarnerius" and "Stradivarius" models be? Granted that both are genuine Juzek's and in excellent to pristine condition?

Also, can we assume the "generic" label you describe for the German-made (Factory) model Juzek's are all "student" models running $300?


Gordon
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19/4/2005
11:52:22
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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Hi Clyde,

I know of no genuine Juzek's in the Strad pattern (although his scrolls were Strad pattern), and Henley specifies only Guarneri del Gesu pattern. If Juzek did make Strad models, then the value of them will be in the same ball-park as the Guarneri models. Value will very much go with the maker and his proficiency at obtaining good tone with good workmanship, rather than the different models he chooses to make.

I made no mention of 'generic' tickets in German trade fiddles purporting to be Juzek's work, please read again. I have seen an obvious copy of a Juzek that bore a ticket 'roughly' the same as a genuine one, but the signature was way off the mark. So, I know 'fakes' exist, but personally have seen only one.

Regards,
Gordon


pat
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08/5/2005
01:16:00
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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I have another fake czeck strad, but there is a date on the black case that is imprinted into each of the hinges reading Aug 29 85. Could this date be authentic? PSI love your message board and enjoyed it since we found our violin, but only this am noticed the dates on the hinges Thanks


Gordon Burns
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08/5/2005
01:21:49
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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Hi Pat,

Chances are, if the date on the hinge is genuine, it will definitely be 1985, because Czechoslovakia did not exist in 1885.

Regards,
Gordon


Vincent
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08/5/2005
11:34:41
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #
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From reading these various messages I realize that I must also be in possession of another Czech copy of the Strad. Mine is spelled Stradiuarius with a u instead of a v, anno 1721. Would the 1721 be the year of that particular design? Also the head has the numbers carved 1/37 which most likely means January of 1937. There is a crest which has the capital letters A and S circled with a coptic looking cross situated above and between them. Where could I find some good information on the internet about when and where and who actually built the originals? Best regards Vincent


Gordon
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08/5/2005
11:44:33
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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Hi Vincent,

It is most refreshing to hear from someone who KNOWS they have a copy.

The spelling is correct... Stradiuari was his name, NOT Stradivari. All the records from Cremona have his name spelled with a U and not a V.

The year 1721 is the most common year used by the Czech factories. It has no bearing whatsoever on any of Stradiuari's designs, and all models from the Czech factories are only 'loosely' based upon those of the Master. The AS surmounted by a Cross of St George is how it was on the original Strad ticket.

You'll not find any good information about Czech factory made fiddles on the Internet, but if you care to read all my posts on Czech fiddles (you'll need to search the site's previous postings) you'll probably get all the info you require (and more).

Kindest regards,
Gordon


Vincent
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08/5/2005
12:00:49
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #
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Thankyou for your quick response to my inquiry, I am amused by how many people copy good work and don't try to create their own. I was trained in classical violin lessons by a recently arrived teacher from either Czechoslovakia or Germany back in the 60's at the urgings of my 3rd cousin. Al Chernowitz (Cherney) was the world champion fiddle player for quite some time and unfortunately I equated that style of music with the good violin history and instruments. I have been looking for some time for a decent instrument to play out on the afterdeck of the 71 year old schooner which I'm restoring to try to bring back some feeling of belonging to neglected ship. Maybe my Strad knockoff is just the trick... but she's been abused as much as the boat so they're very much alike in that regard. I could just go buy a newer violin but I don't believe in destroying things because it's easier. I'll look at the rest of your website for materials to rebuild it with and be in touch. Regards


Gordon
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09/5/2005
03:09:50
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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Hi Vincent,

So you studied under Mr Black, huh? (proper spelling Černy, the Č being pronounced CH as in 'change', translates to 'Black' in Czech), although with a 'WITZ' ending he is more likely to have originated in Poland, unless it is 'VIČ' in which case it may be very northern Bohemia, near the Polish border.

Anyway, back to the plot... you intimate that you play trad fiddle music, and as such I can think of nothing better than a good pre-1950 Czech fiddle... with good quality steel strings, they make brilliant trad fiddles, and are very sought after by trad Irish fiddlers. By the way, this isn't my site, but that of Graham Welsh, a luthier based in Ayr, Scotland. I, like you, am just a visitor here.

Kindest regards,
Gordon


Vincent
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09/5/2005
16:27:32
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #
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These days I'm not sure about what kind of music I'd be tempted to play as it's been some time since I actually played. I attempted guitar in my teens but my right hand kept making the sweeping motion like your bow arm is supposed to so I got frustrated. I live in California so I might be tempted to play for the birds and dolphins and the occasional mermaid. Actually the Cerny fellow was my cousin and the fellow's name that taught me is now lost from my memory.

However, after all these years I have finally come close to retirement age and have always regretted not keeping up with certain things and if you could only see where I live you'd be compelled to play some music here as well. As an afternote, you know there is a place in Canada where is reported to be a creature similar to your Nessie. They call it the Ogopogo, believe it or not. Gotta go, Regards, Vincent




Lyndon J Taylor
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09/5/2005
22:09:34
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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Or perhaps the case was made in 1895, and the violin dates from later. Violins and cases are not "married ' at birth, violin dealers always switch violins putting the cheap junk fiddle in the old broken case, the real antique violin in the brand new case etc. Unless the violin has literally been in the family for years, it is very likely case and violin have not always belonged together, sincerly Lyndon Taylor violinljt@hotmail.com


Gordon
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09/5/2005
22:42:16
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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Hi Vincent,

It's Graham's Nessie, not mine - I live south of the border, being a 'dyed in the wool' Yorkshireman myself (albeit with Scottish forebears).

Lyndon is right. Rarely does a decent violin end up with the original case, especially if it is an old black coffin case, which are often thrown away since they are a magnet for woodworm.

Kindest regards,
Gordon


F Agostini
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23/5/2005
15:54:28
RE: Copy of Antonius Straduvarius #1719
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My grandfathers violin is not marked Antonius Stadivarius, it is marked Straduvarius. It has the printed numbers 17 but the 19 is hand written. It is about 100 years old as my father had it and he's 80. It doesn't have any other markings other than his symbol with A&S on either side. It also doesn't have MADE is a certain country written on it.
My research has shown me that Antonius Straduvarius was italian and couldn't speak or write english, therefore why would he right Made in a certain country. Is this true ?Can anyone give me any other information?
I'd be interested if this is real or a fake!!!


Vincent
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23/5/2005
17:28:37
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #
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Dear F Agostini, I am not an expert in this field but my violin was ticketed by one of the manufacturers in Czeckoslovakia as a Stradiuarius style copy, Unfortunately because of language problems in internationally traded manufactured goods an innocent label can be totally misleading, and not even be intended as a fake. It sounds like you have another country's rendition of this particular style violin. I have to work with different tools which are manufactured in the far east, designed in Europe and sold in America and you should see what the directions look like!

Best of luck with your search. Vincent


Kim Flowers
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20/6/2005
04:59:46
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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Greetings Gordon,
I have an Anolonius Stradiuarius Cremonenfis Faciebat Anno 1736, A-8 in a circle w/+ over the A&8. On the back is Chicadd. In a woodencase, excellant cond. Could you please give me any information. I do not think this is a copy. What do you think it is worth?
Blessings, Kim


Gordon
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20/6/2005
05:02:47
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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Hi Kim,

I know it is a copy. The Chicadd or whatever it is on the back gives it away.

Regards,
Gordon


Gordon
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30/6/2005
06:33:32
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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Tere,

It could be, but it isn't.

Now do you want the value of a genuine Carlo Bergonzi, or the copy you have?

Best to take it to someone who can perform a proper evaluation to get some ides. Posting non-descriptive remarks about anonymous fiddles on a forum bard such as this will not accurately value anything.

PLEASE... EVERYONE... if you have a violin you need valuing, simply follow Graham Welsh's advice, and get in touch with him via the contact page. He has an appraisal and valuation service which is very reasonably priced.

Regards,
Gordon


Tere
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30/6/2005
12:33:19
Carlo bergonzi violin again
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Thanks for answer me so soon. The fact is that our family inherit that "copy " of a Carlo bergonzi violin, but we don´t know anything about violins. I am mexican and live in Monterrey, México and I would like to know if you know somebody with good credentials to value our violin around here in México?


Tere
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30/6/2005
12:38:34
Carlo bergonzi violin again
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Thanks for answer me so soon. The fact is that our family inherit that "copy " of a Carlo bergonzi violin, but we don´t know anything about violins. I am mexican and live in Monterrey, México and I would like to know if you know somebody with good credentials to value our violin around here in México?


Gordon
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30/6/2005
13:38:14
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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Hi Tere,

Sorry, I don't, but if you'd like to get in touch with the site owner, Graham, he has a valuation service that you can buy online.

Regards,
Gordon


cs
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28/7/2005
13:45:53
Lewin violin
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I am considering purchasing an authentic violin made by Johannes Lewin in 1898. The violin has a beautiful tone and has been well restored and maintained. The purchase price is $2800. My gut instinct tells me this is reasonable, but as I am only an ammateur player, I would like to confirm that this is a proper ball-park price for this quality of instrument. Any comments or suggestions are greatly appreciated.


Debi
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07/8/2005
05:41:59
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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My son's big dream is to become a luthier. At a yard sale I came across an instrument in two pieces. Someone has tried to sand off the finish, but the body abd the neck look in good condition (minus the finish, of course)The label inside : Antonius Stradivarius Cremanefis Faciet Anno 17
No 4 1/2 Any suggestions on what I should offer? She has my phone number, and since it is obviously a fake in bad condition, I thought it would be good for him to "fix" for practice, but if it is worth a lot, maybe not. Thank you for your help. Debi


Gordon
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07/8/2005
07:21:05
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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Debi,

She has a practically valueless piece of wood.

As a 'practice piece', offer $5. If the seller declines, go to no more than $10, since in its current condition is is practically worthless.

Regards,
Gordon


sandy
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14/8/2005
10:06:36
Made in Bohemia
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Hello violinman...

I have yet another "Copy of Antonius Stradivarius". However, this label states "Made in Bohemia". Does that not date it before 1918? which was the date of the formation of Czechoslovakia. Also what can you tell me about the case which is a "GBS Original"?


Gordon
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14/8/2005
10:21:24
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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Hi Sandy,

Well done, and I mean that most sincerely! At last, there is someone who is prepared to research something before asking a question. I respect you for this and only wish everyone was like you!

Yes, if it states Bohemia, then there is a good probability that it is before 1918 (to be fair, pre-1920 as it would have taken some time to prepare new label stamps).

However, there are now some 'workshops' (read industries) in Czech Republic (mainly the Luby area) that refer to 'Bohemia' since that is still a region of this new nation. This has occurred only since the Czechoslovak 'Velvet Revolution' of 1989, though, so if your instrument is quite obviously from before this year, it will probably be from before c.1920.

I'm sorry, but the case identification means nothing to me.

I hope this will be of assistance.

My kindest regards,
Gordon


allan
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17/8/2005
04:13:20
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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Hello

I have a violin, and i was wondering how much it is worth. All it has is a paper that says "made in nippon" inside of it. I think it was bought in 1920. it was passed down in my family. Any help would be appreciated.

Allan


Gordon
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17/8/2005
04:41:19
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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Hi Allan,

Nippon is what the Japanese call their nation. Could be c.1920 as Nippon would still have been used then on the tickets. Unfortunately, the oriental idea of tone is completely different to the occidental idea of tone (even today, and very much moreso in those days). They have always made instruments that play on different harmonic responses to those made in Europe, so they tend to 'screech' a little and the music seems to be sort of 'on edge' all the time.

The Japanese fiddles coming into the US and UK around this time were very much of the same stansard as those issuing from Beijing these days. I guess that you could say that the Japanese appreciation for 'nice' instruments began in the 1960's.

The 'famous names' such as Yamaha have done a little bit to redress the issues over the years, but still they seem to differ noticably. There are, however, now some very good makers in Japan.

Regards,
Gordon


Jo Demars
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19/8/2005
04:54:42
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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My question is like many others I have read on this site but...I also have a Antonius Stradivarius (yes, spelled with a "v"), faciebat anno 1713 with "Made in Czech" stamped "1/36" on neck and stamped "s3978" on botton...also with the "diamond" with "KH" and following that "Schutz...something". Yes, I know it's a fake. My mother bought this in Mexico back in the 70's. The fiddle was placed in a picture frame. I took it out. It has obviously been re laq'd and bares a label "NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ARTS" Los Angeles...Seattle. Is is ok to refinish this piece? I live in Montana and we don't really have anyone qualified to appraise this. I would like to take it down to the natural wood. I will keep it for it beauty not value as I don't believe it has any value other than beauty.

Thank you for your help
Jo


Gordon
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19/8/2005
09:58:42
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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Hi Jo,

You are probably right in assuming it's of little monetary value, especially in light of the fact it's already been re-lacquered.

I can see no harm in your 'having a go' at it, so long as you don't expect to get a decent tone from it afterwards. Try to avoid using sandpaper on it at all, chemical stripper and wire wool should be fine, but take things slowly and carefully.

When revarnishing, you'd probably be better going for a spirit-based varnish, rather than oil-based, but don't put any 'modern finishes' like polyurathane or cellulose-based lacquer (or similar) onto the wood, as this will ruin it for sure.

Regards,
Gordon


allan
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19/8/2005
15:07:43
RE:nippon vilion
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Inside this violin is a sticker which says trade mark nippon. This violin was most likely made some where around 1920. I was told it was made in Japan.(if this is right) What could it's aprox. value be ?
Thank You


Gordon
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19/8/2005
15:32:24
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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Allan,

I refer you to my previous post, referring to the comparison with student fiddles coming from Beijing factories.

Please deduce from that, that it probably isn't worth very much at all.

Regards,
Gordon


CLAIRENDA DILDAY
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27/8/2005
14:09:41
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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WE HAVE A PIECE THAT SAYS COPY ANTONIUS STRADIVARIUS FACIEBAT CREMONA 1713 MADE IN WESTERN GERMANY CAN YOU TELL US IF IT IS OF ANY VALUE
THANK YOU
CLAIRENDA


Gordon
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27/8/2005
23:29:54
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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Hi Clairenda,

Please don't shout!

Post-1949 German fiddles are not renowned for their build or tonal quality. This is a factory made fiddle and as a second-hand student model it is worth little.

Regards,
Gordon


isabella
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30/8/2005
07:28:06
real or fake?
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i have found a violin in poorish condition but with a label inside the violin that reads Anno 1740 Carlo Bergonzi fece in Cremona made in Czecho- Slovakia. i was wondering if this is a copy and if it is is it worth anything? it was found admist a house that has many other antiques! it was found in a black wooden covered case! thanks isabella


Gordon
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30/8/2005
12:10:14
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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Since Carlo Bergonzi lived next door to Antonio Stradiuari in Piazza de S.Dominico, in the 18th century Cremona, Italy, and since Czechoslovakia was not formed until the signing of the Treaty of Versailles in 1918, you tell me if it is a copy.

A few minutes research on this site could have saved you asking this question, and my answering it!

Gordon


Morgan
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02/9/2005
13:17:37
Antonius Stradivarius
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Ok My mother and I were looking at the voiln that has been in the family for generations passed down till now inside it reads
Antonius Stradivarius
Made in Germany
how do you tell if it is the real thing or not?



Derek
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02/9/2005
16:09:47
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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Hello,
About 7 years ago I was interested in learning to play the violin, so i went shopping for a new one but they were a little to expensive. After all, I was learning so I didnt see the need to spend much $$ on a new one.. to make a long story short i went to a local pawn shop and found a violin that seemed to be very old. It smelled really bad, but was in my price range.I bought it for $60. I had it re-strung and put a new bridge on it. The owner of the shop offered me a brand new violin as well as $300 cash in exchange for mine. Immediatly I said "No its not for sale/trade" I went home and noticed on the inside that it said "modello stradivarius." Now after reading all of the other messages on this site I am almost sure that i should have taken up that store owner on his offer. what do you think? it is very beautiful and ribbed on the backside and more than likely not even worth what I paid for it originally. Any info would greatly be appreciated. I noticed that none of the messages I read say anything about Modello Stradivarius. Whats a ballpark price for my violin? Thanks for your time. Derek


Larissa
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09/10/2005
13:27:13
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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Hi! I've been reading through the posts and now have a pretty good idea that our violin is probably a Czech factory fiddle. The label says anno 1731 (or more completely Antonius Stradivarius Cremonensis Faciebat Anno 1731)
but I would place the actual manufacture at around the 1930's, sometime before WWII anyway, since my father used it when he was around 8 years old. I know it probably isn't worth much to anyone except our family (and that for purely sentimental reasons) but I was just curious if you could tell me anything about the factory that made it from the logo on the label?
The logo is like a diamond set on a pedestal or something like it. Inside the diamond is a silhouette of a head above which are the letters KH. Above the diamond is something like an umbrella. Any information you could share would be much appreciated. Thanks.


Gordon Burns
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09/10/2005
18:35:43
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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This question already answered, further up this page.


Larissa
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11/10/2005
13:18:31
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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Hi, again. Sorry, I should have read more carefully. I did try to look up both Kutna Hora and Hradec Kralove on the internet but as you said there is very little information. In fact I didn't find any information about violins made in these areas.
Anyway, we were thinking about having our violin restored but would that reduce its value? Should I have it appraised before having it restored? I don't think I could get an accurate appraisal in this part of the globe. Would an appraisal through email be adequate? Sorry to bother you with all these questions but I wouldn't want to make the mistake of having it restored and possibly doing more harm than good. I know next to nothing about violins but am trying to remedy that by researching on the net.
One last question, is there any reason in particular why these violin makers didn't place the actual date of manufacture on the label? I mean, why place 1713 instead of the actual date of manufacture like 1930 or such?
Thanks again.


Gordon Burns
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11/10/2005
13:56:30
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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Hi Larissa,

Any professional restorer will only add value to your instrument. Basically, if it is in need of restoration, it probably means that it is in a less than ideal state. A professional restoration, sympathetically done, could add a good deal of value to an otherwise practically worthless instrument. Even a potentially valuable instrument that is in a poor state of repair, must be a candidate for restoration, as it undoubtedly means that it will sing again.

Regarding KH (Kutna Hora) a few makers worked from there, mostly practically unknown and of little note. If it is HK, then the Pilař family of Hradec Kralove were, and still are a good family of makers.

To understand why the 'generic' labelling occurred, you must deeply emerse yourself into the post-war (WW2) history and culture of Czechoslovakia, and the effect that the Russian occupation had on its people and its various industries. The Czechs never wanted to be part of the Communist Blok, but were sold out by the Americans and the British, so uncle Joe Stalin ended up 'acquiring' them after 1945. By 1948, he'd sent the tanks into Prague to enforce 'communist ideals' on this great people, and by 1950, since no man was any better than any other man (Russian communist crap), makers were prohibited from identifying themselves, and forced to insert the State-issue tickets into their instruments. The only exception to the rule was if the maker was a 'trusted Party member', whereby he was allowed to continue using his own tickets (all men are created equal, but some are more equal that others, pp George Orwell). The practice was decreed as being a simple answer to the 'industry', where instruments that had been churned out pre-war in the factories in Luby, Schonbach (western Bohemia) had been purchased by western dealers for decades. Basically, it was all to do with getting in dollars and sterling.

The tickets placed inside the instruments were merely facsimiles of the tickets used by the great masters, on whose instruments these poorly made factory made fiddles were loosely based.

I have written quite a bit on this subject, spanning across the entire forum. To get a more detailed idea, you may like to look them up.

Warmest regards,
Gordon


Larissa
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11/10/2005
17:25:20
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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Thanks so much, Gordon, both for the prompt reply and for the wealth of information. I will look up the other posts as you advised.


Dona
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20/10/2005
03:28:51
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius
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I have a violin that was given to my greatgrandmother in lieu of payment for room and board. It was passed down to my grandmother (born 1917). The label states "Antonius Stradiuarius Cremonenfis Faciebat Anno 1721" and has a double circle with a "+" above "AS". I know this is a fake because my grandmother had it repaired around 1970 and the gentleman who repaired it said that there is a label inside (although I can't see it by looking through the f hole) that stated
"Repaired by M.E.
Rowe Oct. 1910
copy of Antonius
Stradiuarius Cremonenfis
Faciebat Anno 1721
(double circle
with + above AS)"
There is no mention of a country were it may have been produced. Any idea of this violin's age? As far as I know, my greatgrandmother never had it repaired, so it must of been repaired for the gentleman who used it as payment. I won't ask for a value as I know it would need to be seen in person for an appraisal. I'm just wondering if you might have an idea of when and where it may have been produced since there are no written indications.
Thank you for your time and consideration in this matter.


Gordon M Burns
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20/10/2005
09:49:02
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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Same as the others, probably c1890, probably German. I hope your great grandma wasn't owed too much in lodgings... the list price for this class of fiddle around 1910 was about £3 GBP (at around $4 US to the pound at that time, make it $12). And same as the others, it is anonymous and will always remain so.

Regards,
Gordon


Steve Thomas
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26/10/2005
10:11:54
Repasse
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The first line on the label of a violin I have reads "repasse par". This translates literally as "to pass by again..by". Does anyone know what this means (the back of the scroll also has written on it "Conservatory Violin". What does that mean?? Thanks for you interest and help. Steve.


Gordon M Burns
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26/10/2005
10:23:31
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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Basically, it means that it's a copy (of whatever it purports, or fails to purport, to be a copy of).

The inscription on the back of the scroll is there to denote the model, basically, the Conservatory model would normally be of higher quality than the student model, but as this practice became better established, so the lower grade student models were designated to be of this higher order, just to give them more status (especially true of German trade fiddles... sorry if I seem to have a down on German trade fiddles, but they were ultimately responsible for the destruction of the quality end of the violin market, simply due to the fact that many claimed to be far better than they actually were).

Having said that, chances are you may have a French fiddle, of Mirecourt manufacture, which will outshine most German trade fiddles and leave them at the starting gate!

Regards,
Gordon


Ams2001
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02/11/2005
10:09:54
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #
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I have a violin my grandfather purchased in a pawn shop in the 1930's. I took it to a man that sold instruments to have a string repaired and asked him if he could tell me how old it was and he said it had no markings or stamps by a maker so it would be 200+ years old and he said the worth would be determined on how it played. can you help me figure out this violins worth or age. It has stripes on the back, I dont know what else to look for if anyone can tell me I would appreciate it.


Gordon M Burns
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02/11/2005
10:19:43
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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If he was basing his assumption entirely on lack of markings, etc, he must be mad. I have several 'old' fiddles here, many unmarked/unlabelled, and hardly a one more than about 125 yrs old, and many much later.

An expert would have to see it to determine both age and value, and no way can it be done on this forum.

Regards,
Gordon


Gary Connor
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04/11/2005
20:15:42
Luigi Galimberti copy of a Carlo Bergonzi violin
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Hello. I have a violin that is labelled and signed by Luigi Galimberti. It is a copy of a Carlo Bergonzi that according to the label was made in 1923. The violin looks great and it is complete with faux cracks and marks of the piece he was copying.I was wondering if Luigi Galimberti was respected as a talented maker and wether it would be worth pursuing? Thank you. Gary Lee Connor


Jacob
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17/11/2005
14:08:45
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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Hey!my Grandmother gave me a fiddle or a violin it says on the inside Antonius Stradivarius Faciebat Anno 17 and i had a man come over and tell us it was worth a lot of money could you tell me how much it might be worth??
thanks, Jacob


Toni
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17/11/2005
14:30:57
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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Sorry to disappoint you Jacob, but it'll be a copy. Please read the message at the top of the forum page and do a search for Stradivarius - you'll find out everything you'll need to know about this.




Andrei
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04/12/2005
11:28:58
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius ??
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Hi, Gordon,
I found a very old (as it looks) violin inscripted "ANTONIUS STRADIVARIUS CREMONENSIS FACIEBAT ANNO 1713". It belonged to my grand-grand father, as my mother says. There is no other mark on it regarding the place of it's manufacturing. I read that a lot of violin-makers contemporary with Stradivarius inscripted his name on their violins only for the purpose of selling them as genuine Stradivarius violins...
One of this violin caractheristics is that it seems to have the middle part burned (going to black color). Can you tell me please if this was an fashion-habit (or something like that) in that period? I think about myself that i'm a realistic man so I really doubt that this violin can be a real Stradivarius, but... who knows? :) Where can I test it and how much it will cost me? I'm from Romania and I found your page by mistake, but I'm glad I did, because I realised you know a lot of things about those violins.
Thank you,
Andrei


Gordon M Burns
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04/12/2005
12:17:58
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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Hi Andrei,

It was not Stradiuari's contemporaries who copied him, but the German, Czech, French and (yes, your countrymen too) the Romaian factories from the late 19th to mid 20th centuries.

The middle part to which you refer, being 'burned' is nothing more than a pastiche effect to give a visual illusion of age. Of course, REAL old instruments look nothing like this, as you probably realise. Most of this 'shading' took place in the various factories during the second half of the 20th century.

I have no idea about appraisors in Romania, but if you'd like to send me a couple of photos of your instrument, maybe I can tell you where it came from, and how old it might be.

Warmest regards,
Gordon


Alan
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11/12/2005
03:13:57
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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Message:
I have a ...ANTONIUS STRADIVARIUS CREMONENFIS
FACIEBAT ANNO 17 NO 5 1/2

CAN'T NOT MAKE OUT THE FIST 2 WORD....VIOLIA CO.
#1137
COFFIN CASE
ON THE LOCK NAME CAN'T MAKE IT OUT
I have 2 one is bad and one is very good
I have 6 bow....


MARCIN
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19/12/2005
10:50:02
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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MY GRANDFATHER HAS A VIOLIN THAT HE CLAIMS THAT IT IS OVER 200 YEARS OLD. THAT HE GOT IT FROM HIS GREAT GRANDFATHER. ON THE INSIDE THERE IS A LABEL THAT SAYS COPY OF ANTONIUS STRADIVARIUS MADE IN GERMANY. ON THE OUTSIDE WHERE THE THE STRINGS ARE ATTACHED IT SAYS P.U.F. SZYMANSKY, BERLIN.
CAN YOU TELL ME SOMETHING MORE ABOUT THIS , THANK YOU


Gordon M Burns
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19/12/2005
11:25:13
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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You've been sold a lemon, as many people are when being told about fiddles from way back in the family. I will say this again, although I have said it many times here... Family lie to us!

Szymanski (not Szymansky, as you state) was of Polish parentage, who settled in Saxony. He Germanised his name to Schimansky after settling in Berlin, in 1897 (yes, that's 1897, not 1797). He was a pretty decent maker, but his best output was apparently post 1920.

So we are now confronted with the question of whether your violin is a genuine Szymanski. If the ticket spells it with a Y at the end, then I'm afraid this is quite wrong and no Polish-speaking person would ever make this crude grammatical error. So, you either made a typo, or the ticket is a fake!

If the ticket is genuine (and it was your typo error) then you have a fiddle dating from c.1900 at the earliest. If it is a fake ticket, you are looking at a date far later, and after his death, probably (I think he died in the 1930s).

So for a fiddle passed down from great, great, great grandfather (that's what you are saying, 5 generations before you) your family must have been extremely fast and young reproducers, averaging only 16 years per generation... You know what? I don't think so!

Take your grand father to task over this one, and try to prise the truth from him. To be fair, it is likely that he bought it new, and the rest about the fore-bears is purely fiction.

Personally, I don't know why people do this, and purport an instrument to be far older than it is, when the minutest amount of research shows it for what it is, and shows the teller of the story to be nothing short of a liar... but maybe they think that we'll accept what they tell us without question! If so, they are really naive, aren't they, Marcin?

Kind regards,
Gordon


Ashley
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24/12/2005
05:15:36
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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GORDON! If this is not your site, why do you feel the need to answer these nice people in such a nasty "know it all" kind of way??? If you get so upset when people ask a redundant question heres a solution for you. DON'T ANSWER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Love,
Ashley


Gordon M Burns
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24/12/2005
07:03:39
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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Message:
Merry Christmas, Ashley.


Tavis C Walker
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25/12/2005
11:02:50
Quality?
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Allow me to begin by stating my lack of knowledge on the subject of violins.
I recently acquired (as in, a Christmas gift) a violin from my great grandfather. I expressed to him how much I've wanted to take up violin, and he gave me one from his small collection.
I wouldn't actually mind if I found out it was worth less than an american penny, I'm really just curious as to the quality of the instrument. Should I pass this down to future generations, or purchase a new (better) violin once I become better myself?

The label reads:
Antonius Stradiuarius Cremonenfis
Faciebat Anno 1721 - Made in France

The back is marked:
"Conservatory"


Gordon M Burns
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25/12/2005
12:11:44
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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Hi,

Your violin is probably at least as good as most dating from c.1900 or thereafter. It will certainly be worth more than your proverbial 'penny', and will be a very good starting point for your playing.

As time moves on, so you may wish to get hold of a better one, but when the time is right, this decision will scream out at you, and will be based purely on your experience at that point (i.e. "I cannot go any further with this fiddle - I simply must have a better one!")

As an heirloom, you must use your conscience in this respect, whether to keep it and pass it down, or whether to use it to enhance your playing ability (i.e. to trade it in against a more professional model). To be honest with you, personally, I'd use it as a temporary thing, to be given up in years to come as my proficeincy improved... this way, I could maybe pass on a really nice instrument, eventually, to posterity.

Kindest regards, and a Merry Christmas to you and your family.

Gordon


Sara
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27/12/2005
04:59:35
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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hi i was wondering if my case is an original case. I got a strad copy violin for Christmas. The instrument was made in Czechclovkia. The case was made in Germany. is the case an original?????????? If you decide to respond, please do so in a respective manor. i dont like rude people. i am very sensative. looking upon your other replys you dont seem very friendly. Merry Christmas.


Gordon M Burns
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27/12/2005
12:37:54
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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Message:
If the case was original, it would have been made in Czechoslovakia, in the same factory making the violin. Cases are not 'joined at the hip' so to speak, with their contents and often are replaced as the older, sometimes poor-quality case wears out or no longer offers protection to the instrument. Most serious players I know have their proud possessions in modern 'suspension' cases, which offer the best protection, and humidity control, so don't feel that you must keep the two items together - it is quite the norm to use a modern case with an ancient instrument.

As to your other point, I think that I am quite friendly, although I must confess that as I get older, so I tend to suffer fools less gladly. Decent questions will always illicit decent, friendly replies from me, you can rest assured on that point, Sara.

I hope your Christmas was good, and that the New year brings you happiness with your new violin.

My kindest regards,
Gordon




Mark
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09/1/2006
13:09:15
John Juzek Strad copy
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Hi Gordon,
Happy new year!
I am checking on a John Juzek strad copy dated 1954. Do you think it could be authentic?


Gordon M Burns
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09/1/2006
13:39:27
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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And happy new year to you, too Mark (šťastný nový rok, since we are discussing a Czech maker)

I forget the date od Juzek's death, but something tells me that it was before the war, ao if this is true, any violin dated 1954 is a copy (even a fake). With reference to my previous post on Juzek, he did not make Strad copies, and although his scrolls were definitely Strad in shape and dimension, his violins are of the 'del Gesu' Guarneri modelling.

Genuine tickets give the date, as well as the year, and carry his signature. They are written in English, not in Czech, and appear thus:

----------------------
John Juzek
----------
Ju
   Zek    {with signature}
----------
Violinmaker in Prague
[month/day] [year]
Made in Czechoslovakia
----------------------

Someone else may contradict me and come up with a date of death, and if so, I'll stand corrected.

Regards,
Gordon



Keith
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10/1/2006
17:56:37
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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I am considering buying a violin with no label in it, from a very reputable dealer. He tells me that Charles Beare has seen the instrument twice and identified it as having been made in Prague around 1800, but he can not identify the specific maker with certainty. It is in very good condition.

It has a fantastic sound. I have a number of relatives and friends who play professionally in major orchestras, and over the holidays, in blind tests this "Prague violin" consistently bested very fine Villaume, Leandro Bisiach, and Postiglione violins, which these players actively use, as well as lesser instruments such as early 20th C Heberlein, Collin-Mezin, Meinel, and a number of others in between those two price ranges.

I'm interested in buying it, but I have no idea of a fair retail price for a fine violin with excellent sound, made in Prague around 1800 by a maker that Beare is not comfortable identifying for sure. Any ideas how to estimate a fair market value for such an instrument?


Vlado
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29/1/2006
18:53:03
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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Hi, I have a violin that the label says "Nicolaus Amatus fecit in Cremona 1680". How can one tell if a violin an authentic. Thanks for your information


Gordon M Burns
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29/1/2006
19:06:49
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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Message:
One can tell by taking along to an appraisor. It's not possible to tell you anything on this foruher than the many hundreds of things already discussed, should you have the will to research them (use the site search facility).

Regards,
Gordon


Nabil Guessous
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31/1/2006
02:21:46
J.B. Vuillaume, violin
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Hi Gordon,

A friend of mine would like to sell a J. B. Vuillaume violin, Ticket number: 2462, modéle Stradivarius (from 1863). It's in perfect condition (from a musician's point of view) with an authenticity certificate by Caressa & Francais, Paris, dating from 1903.

What would you suggest, how to procede, should we use the internet to find a buyer? We know it must be worth a lot, considering the prices of other Vuillaume violins of the same period but we still need to get a more precise value estimation.

Thanks in advance, for your advice.

Nabil





Gordon M Burns
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31/1/2006
06:13:05
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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Message:
Well you won't get a more precise valuation here. This is not the place for that kind of thing. My advice it to have it appraised again, to confirm the original appraisal, then shop it around a few dealers. If you are unhappy with their offers, try placing an ad in Strad magazine (it has global circulation). You could also try fielding it with Sotheby's.

Regards,
Gordon


Bill Bubbers
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02/2/2006
09:07:25
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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My sister has Copy # 123, with a "v", and "Czecho-Slovakia" (Interesting spelling.)She plays well, and the tone is pleasant.
I have no questions. Thank you for your responses to related queries, I get the message.


Gordon M Burns
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02/2/2006
12:48:56
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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Message:
Hi Bill,

After the formation of Czechoslovakia, in 1918, it was, for a time, treated as a two-nation state (the culture-rich and efficiently industrialised Czech-speaking parts of Bohemia and Moravia had only a spurious connection with the more rural and less efficiently-run Slovak-speaking part of Slovakia). It was thus called Czecho-Slovakia for a time (until 1920). After 1920, it was known as Czechoslovakia, with the exception of the years 1938-39, during the German occupation, on the leadup to WW2.

This, then, dates your violin quite closely, within the time-scales or either 1918-20 or 1938-39.

Regards,
Gordon




Michael
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03/2/2006
02:54:45
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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Message:
I realize there are alot of copys of the Antonius Stradivarius but how can you tell how old they are mine says faciebat Cremona 1713 Made in ROMANIA i have seen alot made in germany or czechoslovakia but not ROMANIA i still love it is it common


Gordon M Burns
Guest
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03/2/2006
03:30:04
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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Message:
Being Romanian, it probably places it post-1950. This country didn't really develop its violin industry until after the war, as far as I know.

Regards,
Gordon


tony
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17/2/2006
03:23:42
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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yes i got this violn from my gradma and i don't know nothing about it but inside of the violn it say santonius stradivarius cremonensis faciebat anno 1721 tell me somthing about that?


Gordon M Burns
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17/2/2006
03:45:53
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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Message:
Of course I'll tell you something about that. I'll tell you that there are already many hundreds of messages here on this forum relating to this maker (and fake copies thereof) and if you'd taken the time to read the heading to 'Community' page, you would probably already have read some of them, and thus no longer feeling the need to post this one!


Graham Welsh
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20/2/2006
21:33:33
RE: Copy of Antonius Stradivarius czechoslovakia #113
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PLEASE NOW USE THE NEW FORUM. MESSAGES HERE ARE NO LONGER SEEN BY ME AND THE MAJORITY OF VISITORS. FIND THE NEW BOARD HERE.

It's easy to use just register your details, remembering to add your location please.


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