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Tim Dull
Guest
27/4/2004
13:44:11
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 Subject: Vuillaume a Paris?
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Message:
Hi.
I just received a violin from an old teacher of mine for a wedding present. I used to play long ago, but had to give my old instrument back to an aunt from whom I borrowed it. And yes, I cried when I gave it back.
This past weekend, my old music teacher showed at my wedding ceremony to play. With her, she brought an old violin that someone was throwing away. She restrung it and put it back into working order.
I was wondering if there was anything anyone could tell me about the tag inside this instrument? It reads as follows:
Vuillaume a Paris (next line) Rue Croix de Petits Champs 46.
The instrument does seem quite old, and isn't in great shape. I'd love to restore it because the sound is so good (and for my ear to say that it sounds good, it really does sound good).
Any and all help would be greatly appreciated.
Sincerely
Timothy A. Dull II
Pennsylvania, USA
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alastair
Guest
27/4/2004
19:19:00
| RE: Vuillaume a Paris?
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Jean Baptiste Vuillaume was one of the most interesting and important figures in the violin world in 19th-century France. His dates are 1798 to 1875. He was a maker of violins, violas, cellos and bows and a collector of major importance. He was also to some extent a 'faker' -skilled enough to make instruments on Italian models as if they were by the great Italian names, Stradivari and Guarneri and others, themselves. You could call him astute or underhand according to your point of view. It is said that his copy of Paganini's Guarneri was so perfect that Paganini could not tell which was which until he played them (and the two violins are now housed side by side in a museum in Genoa). What is quite certain is that he was a craftsman of the highest order and his violins, whether acknowledged by him at the time or not, are generally excellent. They command high prices - $30,000 to $90,000 approx. at auction.
Vuillaume was also an experimenter. He designed a new style of viola. He made five-string violas. He experimented with metal bows. Hugely knwoledgeable as he was, he knew exactly what to buy and collect, and his most famous purchase was the collecion of the Italian Tarisio, who had many fine Ialian violins including the Strad called the 'Messiah', which is in the Ashmolean Museum in Oxford, England. This is an instrument in almost mint condition, and it is controversial, because some have believed that it is a fake - that Vuillaume made it and passed it off as a Strad. The balance of informed opinion now is that it is genuine, however.
The down side is that there are huge numbers of violins and bows labelled 'Vuillaume' which are not by Vuillaume at all but are later copies, or simply ordinary instruments attributed to him. I have a 'Vuillaume' bow which is decent enough and perhaps worth $150, but J.B.V never laid a hand on it. Of course some of these will be very nice. Your violin is almost certainly one such. It is unlikely that a genuine Vuillaume has not been recognised from its provenance or by someone with knowledge who has seen or played it. But if your violin plays well, then it should certainly be put into good shape by a competent repairer - it deserves that. If you want to check whether it may be a really good violin, you have to take it to an experienced and reliable dealer or appraiser ; no-one can really tell you through photos or verbal description. Good luck,whatever you do.
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James C. Lancaster,
Guest
23/5/2004
12:29:45
| RE: Vuillaume a Paris?
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I have a violin with the same label. In addition up in the left top corner of the label is the number F10625. Any chance this is the real thing?
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alastair
Guest
24/5/2004
07:21:49
| RE: Vuillaume a Paris?
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probably not, but take it to an expert and ask if you really want to know.
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Jo Monzel
Guest
26/5/2004
08:21:06
| RE: Vuillaume a Paris?
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I found a voilin in the trash and I took it home. On the back there is printing: Vuillaume a Paris Germany. I can not find anything on the inside. It was is a wooden case. I asked by boss about it and he said he had thrown it out and that it was brought to the United States by his Grandmother who had gotten it from her mother. I would like to have it restored. Where should I start? Should I have it appraised? If so can you recommend someone?
Thank you in advance for help you can give me with this matter.
Respectfully,
Jo Monzel
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alastair
Guest
26/5/2004
18:35:19
| RE: Vuillaume a Paris?
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If you tell me where you live - just the area will do - it will be possible to recommend someone.
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Tim Dull
Guest
26/5/2004
23:38:54
| RE: Vuillaume a Paris?
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I live in Johnstown, Pennsylvania (USA). Might you know of anyone that lives close to me that could appraise or tell me more about my violin?
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alastair
Guest
27/5/2004
06:12:02
| RE: Vuillaume a Paris?
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I've emailed you about that, Tim. Good luck!
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Jo Monzel
Guest
27/5/2004
06:52:53
| RE: Vuillaume a Paris?
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I live in Dallas / Fort Worth, Texas
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alastair
Guest
27/5/2004
18:25:08
| RE: Vuillaume a Paris?
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....... and also you, Jo. Happy hunting!
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Cassandra
Guest
01/6/2004
16:45:29
| RE: Vuillaume a Paris?
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I was given a Vuillaume & Paris, by someone who was going to throw it away. Im a musician and its against my religion to throw any musicial instrument away. When I got home, I realized that This instrument is very very old and in great condition considering. Theres a marking on the inside that barely reads Vuillaume & Paris, also Bue Croix des Petits Oamps 46. There is also Vuillaume & Paris with the numbers 1412 under it,on the back of it,looks as if it was wrote in pensil,but burnt in.Can u tell me anything?Could it be the real? Also, It had an old wooden peg inside of it, and the screws look like ones that came out of an old singer pedel sewing machine. I live in Anniston Alabama. Is there someone near here I could have look at it? Or any info at all you could give me. Thank You Cassandra
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Peter Matthews
Guest
03/12/2004
14:30:12
| Is Vuillaume a Paris a type?
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Is Vuillaume a Paris a recognised type of violin?
Mine is not numbered, has the Rue Croix des Petits Champs 46
label inside, and on the back, just below the neck, the words
Vuillaume a Paris have been branded into the wood, under the
varnish.
This was sold to me by a university music student in Auckland,
New Zealand, about 25 years ago. It has a thick profile (as
opposed to the slim Strad types) and a beautiful husky, warm,
mellow tone, but freaks out on the e-string too easily, which
may be a problem of setting up and my bad playing. Is this a
recognised type of violin - what other types are similiar?
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Tim Dull II
Guest
03/12/2004
18:15:04
| RE: Vuillaume a Paris?
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Message:
Mr. Matthews.
Personally, there isn't much that I can tell you about the Vuillaume. It does seem to be the same type as the one I have. It has a great mellow tone and should play good. From my experience, I like the sound of a German Violin, and this sounds pretty close to the Karl Hoffman that I had when I grew up.
As far as the e-string is concerned, I've seen alot of violins in the hands of friends of mine that squeeled as well. Sometimes it is the type of string used - a bit too thin and strung too tightlly. Also, check your fine tuners at the pegs. There could be unwanted resonance if they aren't fastned tight enough. Check the bridge itself. If it looks worn, replace it (they're inexpensive and easy to do). I'd recommend making sure that the string has a bit of a "rubber" sleeve on it that fits on the bridge. If yours does not have one, maybe it slipped off and is under the fine tuners.
Another possibility might be that the sound post is a bit off inside, or has fallen down. And yet, the worst thing that it might be is that you simply have a crappy violin. I hate to say that, but I've heard many of cheap "new" violins that did that same "e-string twinge".
Check out the things that I mentioned. Make sure everything is lined up right. Usually, if one string reverberates wrong, the others will do it to some degree as well. But once everything vibrates smoothly, you'll feel it. My best "sound" advice? Tune and play by feel, not by ear. You can feel through the body when everything is just right...the wavelengths match up and it hummmmmmmms....
Hope I helped...best of luck my fellow fiddler.
TiM
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thierry
Guest
11/12/2004
04:32:10
| RE: Vuillaume a Paris?
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I got one just like yours, same details!
Know someone who might help?
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destro
Guest
05/1/2005
03:35:48
| RE: Vuillaume a Paris?
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Any good dealer on the Tampa Bay area in Florida where I can take my violen to check it out. I have one with the exact same description. Could it be the real thing?????????????
Thanks
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Jennie
Guest
26/1/2005
06:49:14
| RE: Vuillaume a Paris?
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I have a Violin which sounds very similar to those that have been mentioned on here. It has been in our family for some time and was in a bit of a state when I got it. It has Vuillaume a paris written in the label, with an address underneath. I took it to a reputable violin repairer and it was restored for about £300. The restorer told me that this was not a geunine Vuillaume - and it was produced in Germany around 1890. 5 years ago, and after repair, he told me that the value of it was somewhere in the region of £350. Does anyone know if this seems to be about the right value at the moment?
Hope someone can help X
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Tim Dull II
Guest
26/1/2005
13:54:13
| RE: Vuillaume a Paris?
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Jennie,
I don't know much about these, but as I like to tell anyone, the value of the violin isn't measure in dollars or pounds or yen, or euros or anything else...it's measured in the feeling you get when you play, the smiles you see when you play, and the history that is behind the particular instrument.
Call me sentimental, but an instrument is often so much more than just what it looks like. It can be beauty in the hands of both the master and the child. It can be pity on a sorrowful evening. It can be forgiveness when nothing else will accept you. If you play it, you will see. If you love it, you will know.
Best of luck.
TiM
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Jennie
Guest
27/1/2005
00:32:58
| RE: Vuillaume a Paris?
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Message:
Thank you for your reply Tim. Apologies if my post sounded like the value of the instrument was the foremost reason for my post. The reason I ask is for insurance purposes. There is no way I would ever sell it, especially when it has been in our family for about 3 or 4 generations, is the only heirloom I have and I of course hope to pass it on to my son. The sound is beautiful and like no other I thought I would ever have the opprotunity to own (until I just snapped an E string trying to tune it up! - must get that replaced!)
What you have written above is completely true ( I love it - so I know) ;-)
love to you
Jennie
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Rosy Williams
Guest
15/2/2005
01:23:18
| RE: Vuillaume a Paris?
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Hi - I'm in Manchester, UK.
I bought one of these ?fake? Vuillaume violins for £500 a couple of years ago. I'm affraid my interest is in its value as I'm trying to sell it at the moment. I seem to have developed an obsession with buying violins that I really can't afford and now that I'm a student I need to start selling! I'm off to get in valued now so will post anonther message on here to let you all know how it went. People have played it and quoted figures like £3000 but I'm not going to get my hopes up!
Cheers
By the way, I totally agree with Tim's statement about the love of an instrument - the violin that I regard as my 'proper' violin is like an extention of my body - if I ever slightly knock it on a music stand or the like, I say "Ouw!" without even thinking. Musicians are funny creatures...
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TiM
Guest
15/2/2005
06:56:48
| RE: Vuillaume a Paris?
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Message:
Rosy,
You're not all that "funny" after all...I named my first violin Bob. It wasn't a Vuillaume or anything, but I loved Bob so. (That sounded weird.) Anyway, I took pretty good care of Bob (a 1964 Karl Hoffman) and would do the same when I knocked it off of anything. Unfortunately, I was young and clumsy, so I did that quite a bit. But Bob endured and was great to me. The most drastic thing that ever happened was the E string breaking in mid-rehearsel for a junior high school concert. Boy did I get funny looks from the teacher...she laughed, then stopped when she realized I was just compensating on the A string for the "Blown wheel"...nothing she's ever seen from a 7th grader before!!
I've also thought about collecting for the investment, but unfortunately don't have much to invest right now. I guess I'd be more into restoration and things. I recently stripped my "Vuillaume" and found that it didn't sound right because the sound post had fallen. I've yet to get that fixed, but when I do, I've got a world of beauty waiting for me to finish. Heck, mine even has a split on the top, but I'm not letting that get me down. After all...it was a wedding present from that same teacher who gave me the funny looks at rehearsel in 7th grade. She played at my wedding and showed up with that one in a case. I didn't cry at the ceremony, but when my sister walked around the corner carrying that case, I let loose. Sometimes life is beautiful that way.
Take care all, wherever you are.
TiM
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Rosy
Guest
15/2/2005
09:34:03
| RE: Vuillaume a Paris?
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Message:
Well my violin dealer wasn't interested in buying it from me (or the silver painted HOFT I rescued from a pub wall one drunken night a few years ago...) but he did say that it's German, 1900 and I could sell it privately for either £650 here in the North of England, or for as much as £800 in London. So good news as I'm off to London on Friday!
Goodbye for now...
Rosy X
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Liz Cairns
Guest
23/8/2005
00:34:26
| RE: Vuillaume a Paris?
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Message:
Hi there, im from Montrose in Scotland and i know nothing about Violins apart from what my mum and aunt told me over the years. I have what is supposed to be a genuine Vuillames violin which my grandad bought for my aunt in September 1939. This came with a Hills of London Guarantee as far as im led to believe. The only markings on it are as follows-: on the "bridge"? there is
W E Hill and Son inscribed, i cant see anything inside apart from what looks like a raised small square bump on the wood ...........could this be a trademark?????? Can anyone help me? i would appreciate any advice from anyone who knows. I would like to sell it but dont know how to go about it for the best.
Thanks for taking the time to read this
Bye for now
Liz
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gwen
Guest
01/9/2005
14:15:50
| RE: Vuillaume a Paris?
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My aunt has a violin with the following written on the inside vuillame -a-paris ruefrourdes petite champf 46. Can you tell me if this is the real thing? or where can she find out? I am in Ontario Canada
Thanks for the help
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Gail Hall
Guest
11/10/2005
13:12:57
| RE: Vuillaume a Paris?
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I found a violin in the attic and it has the exact same label inside as Tim's. I have no idea how to have it appraised or where to go to even get started. Any helpful ideas?
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Graham Welsh Owner
Guest
31/10/2005
22:21:43
| RE: Vuillaume a Paris?
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Sorry Rosy, Not sure if your trying to sell the violin listed on Ebay but please don't advertise your wares here on the board.
Thanks Graham Welsh Owner
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Sarah
Guest
30/11/2005
06:52:08
| RE: Vuillaume a Paris?
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Hi there, I have had my violin for about 20 years, bought it for £20 then and played it whilst at school. I could never find any thing out about it (before internet), but have just started looking for info and found this great page. Mine has Vuillaume a Paris Rue Croix des petits Champs 46 on a sticker inside but is very old and faded, on the other side there was something written but cannot read it. My violin has a thick profile. Can you give me any info on this type of violin and also it is coming unstuck at one seem so needs fixing, do you know where I can get it fixed and valued in Devon UK.
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Jennie
Guest
30/11/2005
07:23:57
| RE: Vuillaume a Paris?
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Message:
Hi Sarah,
Depending on your area you should be able to find someone in the yellow pages who restores violins. Failing that a good bet would be to go into your local music shop (who sells/hires violins) and they should be able to tell you someone reputable to take it to.
I live in York, so if you're anywhere near here I could recommend someone!
Hope this helps. X
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JoAnn
Guest
15/1/2006
08:56:24
| RE: Vuillaume a Paris?
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I have my mother's old violin and the label inside reads as follows: Vuillaume a Paris (next line) Rue Croix de Petits Champs 46. She would have been 103 this year and it was given to her by her father at age 8. He purchased it from a priest and he indicated the violin was very old at that time. She played it for many years. on the bottom of the violin it says: Germany, which makes me think that it was made in Germany not France. It is in perfect condition and I am going to have it looked at, repaired and maybe try and learn how to play. Any help would be greatly appreciated on the history of this particular instrument. I am not interested in selling just want a little information on it.
Thank you so much.
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Gordon M Burns
Guest
15/1/2006
11:56:28
| RE: Vuillaume a Paris?
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Someone is lying to you, JoAnn. Yes, don't just THINK it was made in Germany, BELIEVE that it was. French makers NEVER accredited their instruments to Germany, although it was not unusual for German makers to accredit theirs to France.
So 95 years ago, she was given a fiddle by her father (c.1910) who bought it from a priest (it's always good to mention a priest in there somewhere... gives it an idea of 'honesty') who indicated that it was very old at the time... BUT (and it's a BIG but...) Germany was rarely used prior to c.1900. It simply didn't exist as such. Violins prior to c.1900 are much more likely to have the word Saxony or Sachsen.
So, regardless of what the 'priest' said, it can't have been very much older than around 15 years when he allegedly sold it to your grandfather.
You see, it becomes quite fascinating when you match historical fact against family fantasy, doesn't it?
Regards,
Gordon
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Sarah
Guest
15/1/2006
20:34:16
| RE: Vuillaume a Paris?
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Just on the subject of these violins, does anyones have mother of pearl type decorations on theres?? On the ends of 2 tuning pegs there are small pearls. Then on the bit that holds the other end of the strings (by the chin rest) - sorry temporarily for got name of it - there is 1 stem of 3 flowers, 2 flowers shown from the front and 1 from the side, with 3 leaves on it - made f I guess mother of pearl, then right at the thin end if this peice ther is another small pearl stone thing.
Does anyone know anything about this?? It certainly makes the violin look different
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Toni
Guest
16/1/2006
00:29:47
| RE: Vuillaume a Paris?
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Hi Sarah,
A violin's "fittings" (pegs, chinrest, tailpiece, etc) may or may not be original to the violin. It doesn't usually matter either way. Fittings decorated with mother-of-pearl were common in the 1880s/1890s I believe.
Cheers,
Toni
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Gordon M Burns
Guest
16/1/2006
11:40:26
| RE: Vuillaume a Paris?
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Hi Sarah and Toni,
The 'floral' tailpieces are definitely late Victorian and Edwardian, so basically c.1890-1910. They were quite popular amongst the standard of player who would buy these fiddles, because they made the violin more 'appealing' by looking 'pretty'. It was purely a German thing, found only on trade fiddles from that era.
Ironically, I have seen these flowery tailpieces being sold separately on eBay, fetching up to £45 GBP... amazing, since the fiddles they were taken from won't be worth an awful lot more in many cases. I've also seen fiddles WITH such tailpieces, fetching around £60 GBP! Now that tells you a story in itself, I guess!
Kindest regards to you both,
Gordon
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carol smith
Guest
03/2/2006
07:08:00
| RE: Vuillaume a Paris?
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we have found a vuillaume in my granddads loft labelled JB vuillaume paris 3 mue demours in good condition can anyone give me any information on it for me thanks
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Gordon M Burns
Guest
03/2/2006
10:46:29
| RE: Vuillaume a Paris?
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It's a fake. The ticket gives it away. When at this address, he never used JB, but his full names, Jean Baptiste. A real ticket reads...
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Jean Baptiste Vuillaume a Paris
3 Rue Demours-Ternes
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with a BV inside a double-circle, OR
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Jean Baptiste Vuillaume a Paris
3 Rue Demours-Ternes
18XX [date]
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with a BV inside a double-circle and signature after the date.
Regards,
Gordon
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J. Cairns
Guest
16/2/2006
04:21:33
| RE: Vuillaume a Paris?
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My Father had a Domenique Didelot violin, which came through several generations in the family. With it came a "Vuillaume A Paris" bow. The frog looks very worn out. Can someone tell me something about this make of bow?
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Graham Welsh
Guest
20/2/2006
21:40:40
| RE: Vuillaume a Paris?
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PLEASE NOW USE THE NEW FORUM. MESSAGES HERE ARE NO LONGER SEEN BY ME AND THE MAJORITY OF VISITORS. FIND THE NEW BOARD HERE. It's easy to use just register your details, remembering to add your location please.
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