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anna ryan
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25/7/2005
02:16:19
Subject: guadagnini
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Joannes Baptista Guadagnini
Placentinus fecit Mediolani 1

This is the ticket on the inside of my violin. Could you give me more information as to the maker and origins please?

Anna Ryan


Gordon
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25/7/2005
02:44:30
RE: guadagnini
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Hi Anna,

You will never find anything about the maker, because he (probably they) will be forever anonymous. The ticket is one of J-B G's from his first period, from around 1700 and is a fake. Most fakes place the word Placentinus on one line as you reported, whereas on a genuine ticket, the Pla follows Gaudagnini on line 1 and the centinus commences line 2. Also, a genuine ticket will have a stamp comprising a circle with G.B.G. surmounting a P. If it ain't there, it ain't real.

Being one of the great masters, J-B Gaudagnini (1) 1683-1770 was faked and copied mercilessly.

The origin of yours will probably be Bavaria/Saxony/Germany, a violin factory producing 'trade' fiddles, and will date from post-1880.

If you doubt anything above, you could always get a second opinion by showing it to someone who makes, mends, collects, deals in or researches violins.

Best regards,
Gordon


Ros Long
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14/8/2005
20:29:32
RE: guadagnini
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I was interested in the question posted by Gordon as I have an old violin with a ticket inside and am trying to find out some information on it. I bought it a few years ago through an ad in a local paper for 30 when I was looking for an extra violin as my daughter was using mine to learn on.
It has something similar on the ticket.
The first line reads:
Joannes Baptilla Guadagnini Pla
The second line reads:
centinus fecit Mediolani 1703. This is followed by the stamp comprising a circle with G.B.G. summounting a P.

Could this be real? (Although from what I have read there are a lot of fakes around.)

The second line seems to follow what you have mentioned as does the fact that the Pla follows Gaudagnini on line 1 but the first part of the name is different.

Be really grateful for any information.

Thanks Ros


Gordon
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15/8/2005
03:52:10
RE: guadagnini
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Hi Ros,

The ticket looks about right... check the spelling carefully; the s may well be the old form looking more like an f and so it may read Baptifta and not Baptilla. If it is definitely not Baptifta, then it will be a fake ticket.

Even if it is a 'correct' looking ticket, chances are the violin is a German trade fiddle from c.1880-1900. Although the Germans 'copied' the old masters unmercilessly, they did so in their own way, in that the construction was based on their own methods and not on the Italian method. Therefore, the visual differences are very noticeable to anyone who knows what to look for.

If you think it may have a chance of being genuine, you should have it appraised. Graham Welsh, the site owner, has an appraisal service by photographs (or if you are near Ayr, Scotland, you can take it to his studio). Start by dropping him an email on graham@theviolinman.co.uk and he'll let you know how to go about the process.

Warmest regards,
Gordon


Janet Shen
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27/9/2005
02:12:39
RE: guadagnini
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My father owns an old violin that has a ticket that looks exactly like the one Gordon mentioned, with the "f" in place for the "s" and the Pla in the first line, with centinus in the second, and the GBG in a circle with the P and something that looks like a catholic cross in the circle too. My question is what does Pla-centinus mean? Is "Mediolani" Milan? My father took the violin to the Yamaha acoustic's lab in Japan for a sound test and the test verified that it is over 230 years old, the ticket says it's made in 1764, which fits the 230 year period. Unfortunately the Yamaha lab does not provide any certification. Is there any chance that it could indeed be a genuine Guadagnini?

Thanks for any info.


Gordon Burns
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27/9/2005
06:56:11
RE: guadagnini
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Placentinus is the Latinised version of the town Piacenza. Mediolani is Milan.

You have a violin with a ticket of Giovanni Battista Guadagnini (GBG 1st), born in Piacenza, 1711-1786, but this does not make it genuine, since this maker was copied on a wholesale scale, mainly by the Germans towards the end of the 1800's.

How anyone, even Yamaha, can date a violin on its sound is completely beyond me, and beggars any kind of belief, especially in light of the fact that they are not willing to stump up with a certificate. What they probably said was that it gives a tone similar to those instruments of that age.

If you are convinced it is a Guadagnini, why ask about it here? Obviously, there is as much doubt in your mind as there is in mine. Perhaps you should take it to be appraised by a violin expert, who will immediately tell you it's a copy, or that it's worthy of further investigation.

Regards,
Gordon


Giuseppe Laudani
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09/10/2005
06:15:48
RE: guadagnini
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Message:
Hi
I have an old violin with a ticket inside and am trying to find out some information on it. I bought it a few years in Berlin for my daughter. It has something similar on the ticket. The first line reads: Joannes Baptifta Guadagnini Pla The second line reads: centinus fecit Mediolani 17 printed and 45 written by hand (1745). This is followed by the stamp comprising a circle with + summounting -summounting G.B.G. summounting a P.
A lute-maker had seen it and he said that the wood could be 300 years old. All the measures are the same as a Stradivari model. Could this be real? (Although from what I have read there are a lot of fakes around.)
Be really grateful for any information.
Giuseppe



Gordon Burns
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09/10/2005
11:35:34
RE: guadagnini
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Of course the wood could also be 100 years old. How did the lute maker determine the age? Is he a dendrochronologist?

Although Giovanni Battista Gaudagnini made instruments to the Stradiuarian and Ametese patterns, his arching is slightly higher on his Strad models than those of Strad himself. If your instrument is lower arched, as those of Stradiuari, then it will be a copy, probably dating from around 1900 give or take 20 yrs.

Regards,
Gordon


JEFF
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12/1/2006
13:47:40
RE: guadagnini
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I inherited a violin (and bow) that I believe to have a Joannes Baptista Guadagnini ticket with all the correct spelling, stamping, and alignment previously viewed on your site. The date is 1735 with the 35 written in. I would appreciate any suggestions /further questioning as to it's authenticity and information about appraisers.
Thank you.


Joaquin
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19/1/2006
10:43:14
RE: guadagnini
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Gordon,

My violin has the following ticket:

Joannes Bastista Guadagnini
Cremonensis fecit Taurini
Alumnus Antoni Stradivari 1765

And it has a stamp with GBG and a cross.

Could you give me any information about its origin please?.

Joaquin Martinez


Gordon M Burns
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19/1/2006
12:16:25
RE: guadagnini
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It's a copy with a faked ticket.

Bastista should be Baptista
fecit should be Fecit (capital F)
Stradivari should be Stradivarius
the GBG & + stamp should be
+
GBG
T
(the T standing for Turin [Taurini])

Too many errors to make it real, but even then, by far the greatest majority of this maker's purported instruments are fakes. Most of them are German factory, late 1800s to early 1900s. As a German factory trade fiddle, it will defy any attempt to identify its origins. The genuine instruments of this maker are much rarer than those of Straiuari, simply because his output was much lower.

You stand a better chance of winning the National Lottery three weeks in a row than finding a genuine instrument made by this maker.

Regards,
Gordon


Bruce
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05/2/2006
05:11:32
RE: guadagnini
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I have a violin that on the inside tag reads as follows:
Joannes Baptilla Guadagnini Pla
Centinus fecit Mediolani 1760 +
GBG
P


below the tag it has the following hand written:

Rebuilt 1927
1760
_____
167 years old

by

(a signature that I can't read)

is this worth having appraised??

Thanks,

Bruce







Gordon M Burns
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05/2/2006
12:07:00
RE: guadagnini
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By well before this date, J B G was using a different format of ticket (please note - not a tag - clothes have tags). c.1740, his ticket format changed to ...

Joannes Gaudagnini fecit
Placentiae, anno 174X

... and remained so until his death in 1770. Thus, you have a violin with a ticket used 20 years before yours purports to having been made. Coupled with the fact that the format of ticket insode your violin was the most widely copied, this makes it a spurious ticket inside a dubious violin.

The repairer's note is unreliable, since by 1927 professional restorers had by and large ceased to add their 'note' to an instrument. The reason for this is that a restorer is merely repairing the work of a former maker, and should do so as unitrusively as possible, and if possible, leaving it with absolutely no sign that it has been worked on. This ethical thing was followed by professionals, but, alas, not by amateurs. The note sribbled inside yours tends to suggest a less than professional 'rebuild' so any reference to it being 167 years old when done is open to question.

If you think that you may have something by Guadagnini, you should get it appraised. There are many professional around who will instantly dismiss it as a fake, or tell you that it is worthy of further investigation.

Regards,
Gordon


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